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Subject: TML Bundle #164: Table of Contents



-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------

2029  30-Dec-90 richard@agora.rai PBEM turn 10.5a (add this to your last turn) 

2030  31-Dec-90 "Robert S. Dean"  Vehicle Designs, part 25 << This latest batch

2031  01-Jan-91 METLAY@vms.cis.pi RE msg 2030, Vehicle Designs Part 25 << A his

2032  04-Jan-91 Lesley Grant      Space Habitats : Reality Check << >The commen

2033  04-Jan-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Happy New Year! << Even though the holidays a

2034  04-Jan-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Campaign News << Does anyone else do this? I 

2035  04-Jan-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Inspiring Reading << Yet another post. I once

2036  05-Jan-91 woodsb@ecn.purdue Re: (2033) Happy New Year! << In message 2033

2037  05-Jan-91 f3w@mentor.cc.pur Habitats << A quick qualification. I do not r

2038  05-Jan-91 George William He Habitats << In case you all haven't, i sugges

2039  07-Jan-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Happy New Year! << In message 2033, rsdea



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2029

Subject: PBEM turn 10.5a (add this to your last turn)

Date: Sun, 30 Dec 90 12:45:03 PST

From: richard@agora.rain.COM (Richard Johnson)





Adendum to turn 10.5



As soon as I posted it, I realized I needed to get the guys out of

the airlock.  Here's what happens.



Richard

	richard@agora.rain.com

	richard@agora.uucp



- - ------------- Airlock 4 -----------------



Anton gasps as the air and blood leave the leg and propel him accross the

airlock into the space just vacated by Fitz.  Fitz frantically worms his 

way around in the airlock, attempting to find a position where he can get 

his hands around the leg of Anton's suit, before the low-pressure-augmented 

blood loss gets really serious.  Just enough air is now in the lock to hear 

the distinctive `crunch' of Anton's helmet on the hull.



Red, sticky globules begin slowly falling and coating everything, including

Fitz's faceplate, and gravity begins to return.  Working through the red

filter and haze, Fitz manages to find a place to grab Anton's leg and start

sealing the suit and wound.  "...only 20 seconds more, let's see, stop

the bleeding and hope he's only anoxic.  Sure hope he didn't break that

thick skull of his.  Sure wish I could see..."



"Anyone in the air lock, this is Ian.  I'm here with a medkit and Dulinor.

We're ready to transport Anton as soon as we can open this door."



<Fitz>

DULI -WHO!?!!



<Ian>

"Sorry.  Doc named the medbots Dulinor and Lucan.  Sorry to scare you.  Door

opening now.  Dulinor, standard prep.  Slow him while I help get the 

bleeding stopped.



"Uh, you, Fitz?  Anyway, you'd better come alond with me to sickbay if your

department can afford you for a few minutes.  Whatever you do, don't let go

of that leg."



The medbot, with precision only a machine could muster, removes Anton's

helmet, cleanly cuts his vacc suit's right leg and left arm, and readies

an IV and a respirator.  As soon as the clothing is on it's way to the deck,

the IV and respirator are applied while Dulinor begins resuscitation.

By now, Fitz and Ian have managed to make it to the deck with Anton's leg

in their hands and the whole assembly moves off at high speed for the Aurora.



<Ian>

Doc, Ian.  We've got him and are comin' (pant).  Should be there in about 

20 seconds; better open up now, if you can.  Your readings should be 

starting now. (pant) I need a vacation.  'Vouf and Thule, if you're 

listenin' (pant), thanks for the early-morning sprints.  

(pant)

(pant)

Looks like a clean amputation doc. (pant)  Any artifacts probably got

tossed in the decmpression.





And they arrive at the Aurora.







- - -----------------------------------

There.  Now have fun.



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2030

Date:     Mon, 31 Dec 90 11:30:47 EST

From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>

Subject:  Vehicle Designs, part 25



This latest batch of vehicles was designed over the holidays.  The baby has

had an annoying stomach virus since we got home from Detroit, and there hasn't

been much to do except sit and read and design vehicles.  The Type R variants

should be usuful for campaigns.  I'm not quite sure why they varied the specs

on the Type R in the Imperial Encyclopedia...as you all probably know by

now, I don't trust the Encyclopedia designs until I redo them myself.



Rob Dean



- - -----------------------------------------------------------------------------





  Type NX Battlerider

  

       The NX (for Meson Gun-N, Experimental) battlerider was designed by the 

  Imperial Glisten Navy as a replacement for the venerable 10kton Rider.  After 

  successful evaluation trials, construction was begun in 1111.  It was 

  intended that the Lobachevsky class fleet tenders be updated as new squadrons 

  of 9 NXs were available to replace the squadrons of 15 10kton riders.  This 

  changeover was not complete in 1117 when most of the IGN was deployed to 

  fight the Aslan in the Trojan Reach sector.  Maneuver and life support 

  require about 40% of the total power plant capacity, and each hour at full 

  combat power uses 2.5 hours of endurance.  A fuel purifier is provided even 

  though it is not required for the craft's own fuel, for tactical flexibility 

  in refueling of the parent craft.

  

    CraftID: Type NX Battlerider, TL15, MCr30,377.5

       Hull: 14400/36000, Disp=16000, Conf=1SL, Armor=82G, Loaded=1,078,354t,

             Unloaded=1,039,280t

      Power: 1934/3868, Fusion=522000MW, Dur=30/90

       Loco: 2448/4896, Maneuver=6, Agility=1, (ActualThrust=1.36G)

       Comm: Radio=System*3, LaserComm=System*3, MaserComm=System*3

    Sensors: EMS Active(Far Orbit)*3, EMS Jammer(Far Orbit)*3, EMS

             Passive(Interstellar)*3, High Pen Densitometer(1km)*3, Neutrino

             Sensor(10kw)*3, ActObjScan=Routine, ActObjPin=Routine,

             PassObjScan=Routine, PassObjPin=Routine, PassEnScan=Simple,

             PassEnPin=Routine

        Off: Hardpoints=160

  

                 Meson Gun=N0x     Missile=x90     BeamLaser=x09

             Batteries     1                6                  1

             Bearing       1                6                  1

  

        Def: DefDM+9, Nuclear Damper-9*2, MesonScreen-9*2

  

                 SandCaster=x09     Repulsors=x5x

             Batteries        3                4

             Bearing          3                4

  

    Control: Comp9fib*3, LargeHoloDisplay*4, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*100,

             HoloLink*6200

      Accom: Crew=206 (15 Bridge, 24 Engineering, 60 Maintenance, 52 Gunnery,

             40 Flight, 13 Command, 2 Medical), Staterooms*105, Env=basic env,

             basic ls, ext ls, grav plates, inert comp

      Other: Fuel=75168kl, Fuel Scoops, Fuel Purifier (24hr), Cargo=0, 

             Missile Magazine=750kl (50b-r), Subcraft=4*Type K Gunboats, 

             ObjSize=large, EmLevel=strong



  Type R Merchant Ship TL10

  

       The Type R merchant is one of the most common starship designs in Impe-

  rial space, and is built in varying forms from TL9 up to the highest Imperial 

  tech level.  In addition to being used "as is", the design has spawned count-

  less variations customized for particular applications.

    

    CraftID: Type R Merchant, TL10, MCr107.7

       Hull: 360/900, Disp=400, Config=1SL, Armor=40E, Loaded=5991t,

             Unloaded=3215t

      Power: 11/22, Fusion=930MW, Duration=30/90 

       Loco: 8/16, Maneuver=1, 8/16, Jump=1, NOE=40kph, Cruise=750kph,

             Max=1000kph, Agility=0, (ActualThrust=0.87G)

       Comm: Radio=System

    Sensors: Radar=FarOrbit, ActObjScan=Routine, ActObjPin=Routine

        Off: Hardpoints=4 (No weapons included, but control sufficient for

             up to 9MCr worth has been provided)

        Def: DefDM+2

    Control: Computer Mod1bis*3, 3*HeadsUpDisplay, 500*DynLink

      Accom: Crew=4 (1 bridge, 1 medic, 1 engineer, 1 steward), Passengers=8,

             LowPassengers=9, Staterooms=12, LowBerths=9, Env=basic env, basic

             ls, extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp

      Other: Fuel=875kl, Cargo=2595kl (192.2t), Fuel Purifier (12 hrs), Fuel

             Scoops, Subcraft=1*20ton launch, ObjSize=Average, EmLevel=Faint



  Type R Merchant Ship TL15

  

       The Type R merchant is one of the most common starship designs in Impe-

  rial space, and is built in varying forms from TL9 up to the highest Imperial 

  tech level.  In addition to being used "as is", the design has spawned count-

  less variations customized for particular applications.

    

    CraftID: Type R Merchant, TL15, MCr87.4

       Hull: 360/900, Disp=400, Config=1SL, Armor=40G, Loaded=4753t,

             Unloaded=1732t

      Power: 4/8, Fusion=972MW, Duration=30/90 

       Loco: 8/16, Maneuver=1, 8/16, Jump=1, NOE=40kph, Cruise=750kph,

             Max=1000kph, Agility=1, (ActualThrust=1.09G)

       Comm: Radio=System

    Sensors: EMS Active (FarOrbit), EMS Passive (Interstellar), 

             ActObjScan=Routine, ActObjPin=Routine, PassEnScan=Routine

        Off: Hardpoints=4 (No weapons included, but control sufficient for

             up to 9MCr worth has been provided)

        Def: DefDM+3

    Control: Computer Mod1bis*3, 3*HeadsUpHoloDisplay, 130*DynLink

      Accom: Crew=4 (1 bridge, 1 medic, 1 engineer, 1 steward), Passengers=8,

             LowPassengers=9, Staterooms=12, LowBerths=9, Env=basic env, basic

             ls, extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp

      Other: Fuel=890kl, Cargo=2839kl (210.3t), Fuel Purifier (12 hrs), Fuel

             Scoops, Subcraft=1*20ton launch, ObjSize=Average, EmLevel=Faint



  400 Ton Cargo Carrier TL15

  

       This Type R variant was ordered in 1119 by a small trading company 

  operating in the Spinward Marches.  Unsettled conditions make possession of a 

  good sensor array and a strong weapons package vital to the independent 

  trader.  Three gunnery robots would ordinarily be carried along with one 

  human gunner.  Additional human crew could be carried at double occupancy of 

  staterooms.

  

    CraftID: Type RC Cargo Carrier, TL15, MCr99

       Hull: 360/900, Disp=400, Config=1AF, Armor=40G, Loaded=5277t,

             Unloaded=1861t

      Power: 4/10, Fusion=990MW, Duration=30/90 

       Loco: 8/16, Maneuver=1, 11/22, Jump=2, NOE=40kph, Cruise=750kph,

             Max=1000kph, Agility=1, (ActualThrust=0.99G)

       Comm: Radio=System*2, LaserComm=System

    Sensors: EMS Active(FarOrbit), EMS Passive(Interstellar), EMS 

             Jammer(FarOrbit), NeutrinoSensor(10kw), LowPenDensitometer(250m),

             ActObjScan=Routine, ActObjPin=Routine, PassEnScan=Simple,

             PassEnPin=Routine, PassObjScan=Routine, PassObjPin=Routine

        Off: Hardpoints=4

  

                 Missile=x03 

             Batteries     2

             Bearing       2

  

        Def: DefDM+5

  

                 SandCaster=x04

             Batteries        2

             Bearing          2

  

    Control: Computer Mod3*3, 2*HeadsUpHoloDisplay, 80*HoloLink

      Accom: Crew=3 (1 bridge, 1 engineer, 1+3 gunners), Staterooms=3,

             Env=basic env, basic ls, extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp

      Other: Fuel=1170kl, Cargo=3294kl (244t), Fuel Purifier (12 hrs), Fuel

             Scoops, Subcraft=1*Dependable AirRaft, ObjSize=Average,

             EmLevel=Faint



  Ultima Racing Grav Bike TL15

  

       The Ultima was built at the direction of a large corporation seeking 

  publicity for their products.  Absolutely no expense was spared in its con-

  struction.  Since the entire design was aimed at providing the highest possi-

  ble acceleration, there are two major limitations on the operation of the 

  vehicle: Speed is limited to 4200kph in atmosphere.  Beyond this speed exces-

  sive heating of the hull with resultant structural failure may occur.  Sen-

  sors provide inadequate warning time at top speed, and top speed should 

  therefore only be used over a precalculated and cleared course where no 

  obstacles can be encountered.  

   

    CraftID: Ultima Racing Grav Bike, TL15, Cr52,358,860

       Hull: 1/2, Disp=1, Config=1AF, Armor=1G, Loaded=6.55t

      Power: 1/2, FuelCells=2.08MW, Duration=117hr/13hr (open/closed cycle) 

       Loco: 1/2, LP-LGrav=170t, MaxAccel=24.95G, MaxSpeed=4200kph,

             Cruise=3150kph, NOE=190kph

       Comm: Radio=Regional(500km)

    Sensors: ActEMS=Dist(5km), ActObjScan=Form, ActObjPin=Form

        Off: Hardpoints=1

        Def: -

    Control: Computer Mod1*2, 1*LargeHoloDisplay, 1*HoloLink

      Accom: Crew=1 (Pilot), Seats=NoAccess*1, Env=inert comp

      Other: Fuel=0.363kl, Cargo=0, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Avg





  10 ton Ship's Boat TL8

  

       This ship's boat is equipped with modular connections, and can be used 

  with any of the TL8 modular spacecraft designs.  Intended only for landing 

  and other short operations, it has insufficient armor for long term radiation 

  protection for the crew. The life support system can be switched from provid-

  ing for the entire interior to providing only for the crew accommodations.  

  In the former mode, the batteries are sufficient to provide 4.4 hours of 

  power, in the latter mode, 24 hours.  In either case, vacc suits are recom-

  mended as a safety back-up for the crew.  Solar cells are sufficient to 

  operate the electronics indefinitely.  Rocket fuel will provide one hour of 

  full thrust.  This is not sufficient for takeoff from a large dense atmos-

  phere planet with a full cargo load.

  

  <Designed from rules in Challenge#45>

   

    CraftID: Ship's Boat, TL8, MCr2.86

       Hull: 9/23, Disp=10, Config=1AFM, Armor=10C, Loaded=76.9t,

             Unloaded=15.7t

      Power: 1/2, SolarCells=.046MW, Batteries=1.2MW-hr, Duration=Special 

       Loco: 1/2, Rocket=90t, MaxAccel=1.17G, Duration=1hr

       Comm: Radio=Continental

    Sensors: Radar=VDist(50km), ActObjScan=Difficult, ActObjPin=Difficult

        Off: Hardpoints=1

        Def: DefDM+2

    Control: Computer Mod0bis*3, 23*ElecLink

      Accom: Crew=2 (Pilot, optional copilot), Passengers=4, Seats=Roomy*6,

             Env=basic env, basic ls

      Other: Fuel=57.6kl (Cryogenic), Cargo=41kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Avg



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2031

Date: Tue, 1 Jan 91 16:16 EDT

From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu

Subject: RE msg 2030, Vehicle Designs Part 25





A historical note concerning the Ultima bike: only two models were

ever built, one a partially-functional prototype that was used for

trade show displays and the other a fully operational design. Rumors

of a third bike having been made were denied for several years, until

investigative journalists discovered the truth: there were actually

TWO other examples of the line built, and the prototype had originally

been scheduled for eventual complete functionality. The concept had been

to give the corporation a fully functional gravbike precision-flying team

similar to the Imperial Flying Sabres of Capital or the Winged Unicorns

of Regina, but using gravbikes rather than fighters as a novel twist.

The plan had been scrapped when one of the two unaccounted-for bikes

came apart at just over Mach Two in a test flight, and the other bike

was stolen in a Corsair raid on the world where it was stored. The 

whereabouts of this third bike are unknown, and the corporation still

denies its existence. 



metlay





------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2032

Date: Fri, 4 Jan 91 9:08:02 GMT

From: Lesley Grant <lgrant@maths.tcd.ie>

Subject: Space Habitats : Reality Check



>The comments regarding space habitats are well considered, but I must

>disagree for several reasons....

	Mark Gellis then proceedes to talk about Space Habitats as 

constructable in the near future. Wait a minute. This is Traveller.

If you're going to talk reality then the economic argument I initailly

proposed counts double. The good news is that in Traveller my assumptions

were not wholly correct.

	Over the holiday for my own satisfaction I decided to work out just

how much it would cost to build a space habitat (or space station) and thus

prove the cost prohibitive to normal inhabitants.

	I took the largest hull size, assumed TL15 and made it an open frame.

No gravity but I left it with 1% G maneuver drives (attitude thrusters). I

just had accomidation with not industry or storage space. The result was a 

pleasingly expensive 116 billion credits. However it housed 470,000 people

which made the cost per person (2 per stateroom) at just under 250,000Cr.

With a 40 year morgage it ammounts to just over 1000Cr per month. At my

normal exchange rate (10Cr = 1 IRL) that's less than my flat costs! Even at

1Cr = $1 it isn't *prohibitively* expensive. At the standard traveller rates

of 500Cr per skill level per week it is easily affordable to skill rank

2 (or even 1 if pushing it).

	It is interesting to note that 200,000 of the 250,000 is just for

the stateroom (according to my uncorrected rules). Of course a better model

would include gravity and space for something to employ the people. It

would be interesting to seem a design my someone more interested in the ship

design rules. I am seeing what a TL9 space station (20 Subsidised merchant

berths, 20 far trader/seeker berths, 4 large (1000t) berths, warehousing

for the equivalent cargo, fuel storage for the equivalent, and staterooms

for the equivalent) looks like/costs.



	Reality Check.

	I'll quite hapily discuss the imposiblity of Space Habitats in the

*real world* with anyone but over private e-mail. Traveller defines its

own reality which rarely touches on our own.



				Jo Jaquinta

				jaymin@maths.tcd.ie



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2033

Date:     Fri, 4 Jan 91 14:06:51 EST

From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>

Subject:  Happy New Year!



Even though the holidays are over, there doesn't seem to be  much 

traffic on the list.  I thought I might as well take this  oppor-

tunity  to bring up a few things that have been on my  mind,  and 

see if we can get a little activity going again.



Item  1:  MESON COMMUNICATORS  I have been asked why I never  put 

these things on nay of my starship designs.  Well, there are  two 

reasons.  They serve no purpose, and they're expensive.  Serve no 

purpose, you say?  Exactly.  The only advantage of a meson commu-

nicator  versus any of the other tight beam comm systems is  that 

it can transmit through solid objects.  However, assuming that it 

works  more or less like a meson gun, you need to know the  exact 

range before using it.  Thus, unless you can already see and talk 

to the other ship, you can't use your meson communicator.  I also 

have a feeling that I wouldn't want to be aboard a ship receiving 

a slightly misaligned meson communication--even though the 20  or 

30  megawatts of a communication beam aren't anything next  to  a 

spinal  mount's  output, I'd hate to be on the bridge  when  that 

message decays ten feet from the meson receiver.



Item 2: IMPERIAL BUREAU OF STANDARDS  A fair amount of powder has 

been burned in the past few months on the nitty gritty details of 

weapons.   I've  always  worked under the  assumption  that  some 

Imperial  standards organization exists, and that if you carry  a 

standard   weapon,  you  shouldn't  have  much  trouble   getting 

bullets/power packs for it.  This is basically the same situation 

that exists for starships, where you can get your drive  repaired 

anywhere.   Even though there may be multiple  standards  (Oh...I 

see  you  have a Procyon.  That's an ImpStd-D isn't  it?)  it  is 

still easy enough to get parts.  



Item 3: SPACE COMBAT WITH UNDERARMORED VESSELS  My first  sugges-

tion for a quick approximation of what to do with an underarmored 

(less  than 40) space craft would be to apply a +1 to the  damage 

die  roll for each three armor classes under 40.  (Mirror  of  -1 

for each three over 40).



Item  4: GREAT ADVENTURE IDEAS What are some of the  best  adven-

tures  people have run/played in?  For all the years  I've  owned 

this game, I've not played it much, and I wonder what people have 

done that they thought worked well.



Item  5: A MILITARY CAMPAIGN PBEM  Since I never actually  get  a 

chance  to  run  anything, I am considering  the  possibility  of 

running  a military oriented game over the net.  Realistically  I 

couldn't  accept more than about five players.  The basic  situa-

tion  would  be this:  A small mercenary unit  with  a  financial 

problem has been approached by the government in exile of a small 

country which was overrun by a larger neighbor.  They would  like 

to liberate their homeland, but have very few resources.  The pay 

would be better than the training duties the company is currently 

surviving on.  Emphasis on military ingenuity/irregular  warfare, 

and  an  exploration  of how grav vehicles  would  really  affect 

combat.  If it works, and I can keep it up, there would be poten-

tial  for expansion or starting a new game on a different  topic.  

Set in the Spinward Marches...



Item 6 REVISIONS OF VEHICLE DESIGNS  I've been sorting the  vehi-

cle designs and correcting typographical erros where I could find 

them.   If anyone is interested, I'll be sending them to the  ftp 

site (if it has been repaired.)



Item 7 TDR VEHICLE SYSTEM  Has anyone looked at my draft  vehicle 

system version 1.1?



Respond to any or all.  Let's get this list moving again.

Rob Dean



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2034

Date:     Fri, 4 Jan 91 15:52:18 EST

From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>

Subject:  Campaign News



Does anyone else do this?  I like to hand out stuff like this at the 

beginning of my (infrequent) adventure sessions whenever possible.

This particular bit of fluff is for the military campaign mentioned in

another of my posts today.



**********************************************************************









                                WURZBURG REPORTER

                                     33-1107

        

         GLISTEN NAVY ACTION AT SOREL    Horosho Mountain Infantry  Reg-

               (Glisten 17-1107)         iment,  the 4th Horosho  Marine 

                                         Combat  Team, and Company B  of 

           The  IGN ship Lenard  Jonson  the   11th   Mountain   Armored 

        destroyed  an unidentified  200  Battalion arrived today for two 

        ton class vessel today when  it  months  of training and  maneu-

        attempted  to lift  from  Sorel  vers.  Their opposition will be 

        without an identification tran-  provided   by  Colonel   Enliid 

        sponder.   The  ship  did   not  Boswell   and   his   Composite 

        respond to communications,  and  Armored  Company, and  we  wish 

        undertook  evasive   maneuvers.  both sides the best of luck  in 

        Navy   officials  consider   it  the upcoming exercises.   Local 

        likely  that the craft was  in-  odds makers favor Boswell by  a 

        volved in the recent attempt to  five  tank spread.  Place  your 

        manipulate  tribal politics  by  bets before the start of opera-

        the  introduction of high  tech  tions.

        weaponry.   Sorel  is  under  a  

        limited  IISS  interdiction  at     GRIFFIN ISLAND GOVERNMENT

        the  request of local  authori-     IN EXILE DENOUNCED BY SEA 

        ties.                                        LEAGUE

                                               (Overnale, 19-1107)

         IMPERIAL RESERVE NOTIFICATION   

              (Glisten 350-1106)           In  a strongly worded  state-

              (Repeated Message)         ment released to member of  the 

                                         Imperial  press  corps   today, 

          All  Imperial Navy and  Scout  Autarch  Fleming Haksurron  de-

        Reservists  are  requested   to  nounced    "the    inflammatory 

        renew  their registration  with  activities  of  that  group  of 

        the  appropriate tracking  off-  unsupported   rebels    calling 

        ices  at the earliest  possible  itself   the   Griffin   Island 

        opportunity.                     Government in Exile".   Accord-

                                         ing to the Autarch, anyone aid-

               OVERDUE SHIPPING          ing  these rebels will be  sub-

             (Mertactor 347-1106)        ject  to the death  penalty  if 

                                         apprehended.  The Autarch  also 

          No    regularly     scheduled  announced  that  production  of 

        shipping   from   Collace   has  manganese alloys in the Griffin 

        arrived  in  the  past   thirty  Island  Province had  increased 

        days.  Imperial/Collace   rela-  by  five  percent in  the  most 

        tions have been steadily  wors-  recent  year,  clearly   demon-

        ening since the closure of  the  strating   that  there  is   no 

        Scout  base there earlier  this  oppression   of   the   workers 

        year, and there is  speculation  there.   A  message  from   the 

        here    concerning    potential  GIGIE was also received by  the 

        seizure  of Imperial  shipping.  press  corps,  stating   merely 

        Navy   officials  declined   to  that the truth of the situation 

        comment further on the matter.   could   be  perceived  by   all 

                                         intelligent beings, and calling 

             HOROSHO GROUP ARRIVES       on   the   other   nations   of 

                   (33-1107)             Overnale to take action against 

                                         the Sea League.

          The  2nd  Battalion  of   the  













             TRADE SHOW ANNOUNCED             ENTERTAINMENT NOTICES

                   (33-1107)             

                                         Professor  Alton Jones  of  the 

          The  onplanet  representative  Imperial Navy Academy at Bendor 

        of   Ling   Standard   Products  will speak on "Military Lessons 

        announced today that the compa-  of  the Fourth  Frontier  War", 

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        cles for all interested parties  

        from  the 37th to the  39th  at  Noted  Caledonian   bladderpipe 

        the Town Convention Center.      performer  Eyan  Makelroi  will 

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        ******************************   are  still  available  for  Cr2 

        * RECRUITING NOTICES          *  from   the  Wurzburg   Cultural 

        *                             *  Council.   The concert will  be 

        *The following Units are      *  at the Library, Meeting room 1.

        *now recruiting.  Represent-  *  

        *atives may be contacted      *  Amateur  GravBall League  meets 

        *at the Guild Hall            *  every  night at Repair  Bay  1, 

        *                             *  SpacePort.  

        * Stewart Interstellar Ent-   *  

        * erprises, Corporate Guards  *  Third   Intruder  Platoon   vs. 

        *                             *  Stewart Corporate Guards  Squad 

        * Imperial Marines            *  113.  Live feed on video  chan-

        *                             *  nel 2.  Intruders favored 3  to 

        * Imperial Glisten Marines    *  1.

        *                             *  

        * Boswell's Company           *            CLASSIFIED

        *                             *  

        * ConTech 5th Armored Brigade *  Wanted:   Any information  con-

        *                             *  cerning the flights of the IISS 

        * Randolf's Raiders           *  Scout Cruiser Vanguard.  Answer 

        *******************************  to NetBox C37.

                                         

            ARRIVALS AND DEPARTURES      Wanted:  Spare parts for  Pega-

                                         sus  9mm hunting rifles.   Com-

        FT Venturesome, A from Horosho   plete rifles OK, any condition.  

        FT Lucky Paw, A from Glisten     Joe's Guns and Tackle. Com  11-

        FT Ecliptic Voyager, A from      106

          Tsarina                        

        FT Frolic, D for Horosho         Wanted:   Information on  loca-

        IGN Daras, D for Glisten         tion of Neery Jeehof in connec-

                                         tion  with heavy weapons  smug-

        $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$   gling  case.    Confidentiality 

        $    USED VEHICLE EXCHANGE   $   assured.  NetBox C32.

        $ Reconfiguring your outfit? $   

        $ Try us before you try the  $   For  Sale:   Domestic   Robots, 

        $ rest! Com 11-165. Main,    $   small lot from Glisten.  Prices 

        $ across from the Convention $   10% off retail and down.  Trade 

        $ Center                     $   ins  accepted.  Get them  while 

        $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$   they  last.  Automata, Com  11-

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        The Prophet says: War is  ulti-  

        mately   detrimental   to   the  For  Sale:   Surplus  Type   S.  

        fighter. Aborite Missions.       Built 1002, Lunion. NetBox P93



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2035

Date:     Fri, 4 Jan 91 16:00:25 EST

From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>

Subject:  Inspiring Reading



Yet another post.  I once uploaded a message that didn't take on the subject

of inspirational reading for Traveller games.  What has anybody else read

that really makes them think about Traveller?  There is a lot of excellent

SF that does not make me think about incorporating it into a Traveller game.



My favorites:  Michael McCollum ANTARES DAWN and ANTARES PASSAGE

               Lois McMaster Bujold: Everything she has written

               Robert Heinlein: THE MOON IS A HARSH MISTRESS

               Poul Anderson: Most of his futur history series

                              (Falkayn and Van Rijn, Flandry)

               Niven and Pournelle: THE MOTE IN GOD'S EYE

               Pournelle: KING DAVID'S SPACESHIP



Before anyone jumps on me for my taste, remember, this is the list of books 

that make me think about playing Traveller, not my all-time favorite SF.



Rob Dean



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2036

From: woodsb@ecn.purdue.edu (Brent L. Woods)

Subject: Re: (2033) Happy New Year!

Date: Sat, 5 Jan 91 1:19:35 EST





 In message 2033, rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil (Robert S. Dean) writes:

 >

 >Item  1:  MESON COMMUNICATORS  I have been asked why I never  put 

 >these things on nay of my starship designs.  Well, there are  two 

 >reasons.  They serve no purpose, and they're expensive.  Serve no 

 >purpose, you say?  Exactly.  The only advantage of a meson commu-

 >nicator  versus any of the other tight beam comm systems is  that 

 >it can transmit through solid objects.  However, assuming that it 

 >works  more or less like a meson gun, you need to know the  exact 

 >range before using it.  Thus, unless you can already see and talk 

 >to the other ship, you can't use your meson communicator.  I also 

 >have a feeling that I wouldn't want to be aboard a ship receiving 

 >a slightly misaligned meson communication--even though the 20  or 

 >30  megawatts of a communication beam aren't anything next  to  a 

 >spinal  mount's  output, I'd hate to be on the bridge  when  that 

 >message decays ten feet from the meson receiver.



     Um, I don't think so.  I always thought that the meson communicator

receiver worked more or less on the same principle as the meson screen.

As I understand it, a working meson screen makes an incoming meson

beam decay "early," on contant with the screen.  If this is how the

receiver works, then you don't need to know the range.  If you use a

diffuse beam, you don't even have to be all that accurate with your aim,

either.  You just have to get a small fraction of the beam to the

receiver so that the early decay of the mesons can be detected (we have

detectors that can handle small numbers of particles *now*--who knows

what a TL15 culture might manage?).  If you use some form of, say,

pulse modulation that is designed to be easily distinguishable from

random noise (assuming that there's all that much of a chance of running

into "wild" mesons), then the resultant energy density needed at the

receiver end is safely low.  This is assuming that the receiver is at

the extreme range of the transmitter, which increases the chances of

the beam reaching the end of its lifespan in the same general area.  If

you're closer to the transmitter than that, I would think that it would

be perfectly safe, since I can't think of any good reason to ever set

the beam duration for anything less than maximum.





- - --

     Brent



INTERNET:  woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu

USNAIL:  2818 S. Sunrise Dr.  /  New Palestine, IN  46163

PHONE:  +1 (317) 861-4844 (voice)





------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2037

Date: Sat, 5 Jan 91 02:31:19 -0500

From: f3w@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mark Gellis)

Subject: Habitats





A quick qualification.  I do not recall stating that habitats could be

built in the near future, and I suspect it was bad phrasing on my part

that suggested it.  I would not be surprised if we see early permanant

space habitats around 2100 A.D.; I would be surprised to see them before

that.  Space habitats worth living in require certain technologies that

we simply do not have or have not sufficiently developed.  Of these,

I think one of the most important would be self-replicating robots to

handle the enormous labor and manufacturing costs--building something

the size of a Nimitz class carrier in orbit is far beyond what we can

afford to do at this point, whether or not we could solve the many

technological problems.  



On the other hand, I find it hard to imagine a future where mankind

has survived that does not eventually involve a space industrialized

civilization.  It is not that people will emigrate to space in large

quantities, but if only 1% of the population leaves (comparable to

other emigrations in human history), that means you have an initial

population of several million humans (with several billion robots

working for them--self-replicators will breed as often as we want

if we give them sunlight for power and raw materials to process).  

This population will gradually find living in space "normal," and

when their populations pressures start, they will simply build more

habitats.  As I said before, an Earth-like planet might be able to

support 20 billion people, perhaps comfortably if we distributed

resources properly, but the asteroid belt has enough raw materials

to make habitats for half-a-trillion people, even assuming you need

one million tons of raw materials per person to make these habitats

and supply other basic needs (I assume very roomy habitats...after

all, if you're going to live in space, don't live in a metal shack,

build a small world to order, if you can afford it--advanced

technology will make it economical.  Not during our lifetimes,

but I cannot imagine technology not advancing to the point where

it will be practical and cost-effective.  And it is also true 

that the first space habitats will be primitive and cramped, but

probably no worse than what urban dwellers endure right now--

New York City has a population density of more than 20,000 per

square mile--but as the space-based population grows larger and

richer, their habitats will become more luxurious.)



As I said before, it is not that space habitats are going to be

available very soon, or that everyone is going to suddenly rush

to leave Earth, but some people will--you always get a few with a

frontier mentality--and their children will probably stay in 

space (children do leave small towns for the big cities, but 

most children of colonists do not leave their new native country

for the "old country" of their parents); they will be the population

that eventually expands, growing huge because the natural resources

in space are much greater than those on any planet.  



Assuming we do not destroy ourselves or turn away from space entirely,

I cannot see how this could not happen.  Eventually, the technology

to support people in space will be available; a few will go, either

to get rich, or to get away from a society they dislike, or for some

other reason, and they will get things started.  Sure it sounds

crazy.  It was crazy to leave England in 1620 for America.  It was

really crazy to set out on the Pacific in an open boat, hoping you

would find a new island to live on.  People did it.  (For a good

discussion of these issues, by the way, I strongly recommend a 

collection of articles entitled INTERSTELLAR MIGRATION AND THE

HUMAN EXPERIENCE.)



Enjoy.  And remember, by the time you finish reading this sentence,

it will be the future.



 



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2038

Date: Sat, 5 Jan 91 22:54:03 -0800

From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>

Subject: Habitats





In case you all haven't, i suggest everyone going and looking at a copy of

JTAS 23.  Among other articles (it also had John Ford's classic "Road Show",

which by itself is worth the trouble finding the magazine...) it has 

Chris Struble's 'Space Habitats In Traveller" article.  Excellent work. I can

if need be type it all in (though it would take a while); i'll summarize below.



Between TL8 and TL14 many societies build rotating habitats.  At TL15, it also

becomes possible to make Gravitic habitats (where centripetal force is replaced

by massive grav plates for 'gravity' on the habitat), but this is extremely

expensive and an uncommon solution.  The majority of habitats are rotating

ones, spherical or cylindrical.



	Habitats are built by the million tons of material used (these are not

the flimsy little structures that spacecraft are, by any means 8-).  Costs 

and weights depend on a number of factors (atmosphere, Gs, etc.).  

	One example given is a 7km radius spherical colony built at TL9, which 

is large enough to house 2 million people, or produce food for about 11 million,

with some balance in between likely.  It would cost MCr 120,000 to build; this

works out to only 60,000 Cr/inhabitant.  Spread over only 40 years, this is only

Cr250/month... much less than any well-paying professional will earn.  And it

will last a lot longer than 40 years.  Seen in this light, it's obvious that

it's well worth it to build larger habitats, even at lower tech levels.  

While the massive capital required to start one requires near-certain government

subsidy, the long term economics are quite favorable.  



- - -george william herbert

gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2039

From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se

Subject: Re: Happy New Year!

Date: Mon, 7 Jan 91 13:24:37 MET



In message 2033, rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil (Robert S. Dean) writes:

> Item 7 TDR VEHICLE SYSTEM  Has anyone looked at my draft  vehicle 

> system version 1.1?



  Eh, 1.1? I've seen a version 1.0 that was dated 29 Nov 90, but no 1.1.  I used

part of 1.0 for the play during the holidays.

  The "Damagepoints from weight" thing is nice. Heavily armoured SDB's will

get far larger capability to absorb damage than flimsy civilian transports.

(I assume that "weight" in the damage point formulas is unloaded weight. It is

 given as clean weight in the COACC part but just "weight" in the vehicle/

 craft/ship part.)

 

  Regarding Agility.. (The entire TML screams and runs for cover, but don't 

worry, I'm not seeking to restart the old "What Is Agility? Where does it live

and what does it charge by the hour?" argument.)

 

  I don't really understand how one should compute agility. In the general

section you say "Agility is equal to the acceleration available after all other

systems have been powered." and in the COACC part "Agility formula for aircraft

(and grav vheicles) is forthcoming." 



  The first sentence seems to be like good old Striker, where grav-vehicles

could be powered by a fraction of the effect that was listed and get a fraction

of the listed thrust. In Striker (in the three design examples at least) the

vehicles wouldn't have enough powerplant to go at top speed while they were

operating their weapons. Is it this "reduced acceleration while everything is

powered" speed that you mean?



  I also have to put my vote for the fusion rocket. I think that there is

something grand about a large spaceship at 6 gee with a long glowing flame of 

heated (hydrogene? water? ammonia?) trailing after it.

  But it might just be a severe case of space opera that has hit me:)



> Item  4: GREAT ADVENTURE IDEAS What are some of the  best  adven-

> tures  people have run/played in?  For all the years  I've  owned 

> this game, I've not played it much, and I wonder what people have 

> done that they thought worked well.



  Somehow, I usually manage to make intro adventures that are stronger than the

campaigns that follows. This is true for all types of RPG's I've been involved

in. It probably has something to do with the time I spend on it. In any 

case, I'll only talk about my views on introductiory adventures.

  

  I like adventures to be fairly complex with several bottoms. The ones that

the players have liked the best were those that could accomodate several

different styles of play (Adventures that could be approached and from either a

discovery/exploration, scientific, economic or gung-ho angle and solved from any

angle.)

  Those kinds of adventures are especially successfull as first adventures

when you arn't really sure which style of play that that group will take.

(They took the discovery/exploration/gung-ho angle with a minor in economics:)



  Traveller has the famous concepts of the push, the pull, the enigma and the

gimmic (I'm almost afraid to admit it, but 3 of the reasons in "the push: the 

5 top reasons why everyone in the galaxy hates you" (a cartoon in challenge 

some issues back) fit in on the pc-s in my current campaign, and they don't 

cheat at dice:)

  I'd like to extend those concepts to the pushES, the pullS, the engimaS and

the gimmicS. If you onlt have one push and one pull working during an adventure,

it will tend to follow the path of a charged particle, away from the source of

the push to the location of the pull. Solving enigmas on the way and collecting

the gimmic in the end (usually).

  (Knightfall could be taken as a good example of this kind of "charged particle

campaign", but it has several sequential strong pulls in effect.)



  A better model would in my opinion be to have several pushes and several

pulls in effect from different locations at the same time. Different players

(and different NPC's) would interpret the situation in different ways and

support different actions. Suddenly the linear adventure has got several more

dimensions. The course it will take is not longer predictable and, at least

those of this type that I have run, have been more enjoyed, by myself and the

players.

 

  As a summary, the following structure has worked for us:

PC-s get apparently simple assignment from a patron (Always have a reason why

*They* of all people gets the assignment, I thought the "late at night at 

the starport, desperate lawyer looks for anyone with a scoutship" ploy worked).

  After they have started on the assignment (and the patron gone somewhere else

so that they can't go back and gripe about it and demand additional information)

{strange things start to happen/strange facts are discovered} that hints that

the whole thing might be more complex than anticipated.

  They discover the first part of the puzzle, which in this case were where to

travel to, but when they there the mystery thickens and several more pushes

(the first was a deadline) and pulls (the first one was a reward) materialize.

  After some stalling in which they pick up pieces of the puzzle they begin to

see a pattern and soon the end is in sight.

  Then another bottom with more pushes and pulls reveals itself and the middle

part of the adventure is resolved in a dramatic climax.

  Then comes the end of the adventure with no great surprises, up till the very

end when there is another, final, dramatic point.



  I'm not claiming that this is The Formula For Epic Adventures, but it worked

for us.



- - -bertil-

- - -- 

"Words on the net aren't usually worth the paper they are written on."



------------------------------



End of TML Bundle

*****************



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To: Dan Corrin <dan%engrg.uwo.ca@RELAY.CS.NET>, jamesp@metolius.WR

Subject: TML Bundle #165: Msgs 2040-2054

Reply-To: TML Administrator <traveller-request%metolius.wr.tek.com@RELAY.CS.NET>

Precedence: bulk

Date: Tue, 12 Feb 91 13:53:14 PST

From: James T Perkins <jamesp%metolius.wr.tek.com@RELAY.CS.NET>

Status: RO





TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,

maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.



------------------------------------------------------------



Date: Tue Feb 12 13:53:09 PST 1991

From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)

Subject: TML Bundle #165: Table of Contents



-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------

2040  07-Jan-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Inspirational Reading << In message 2035 

2041  05-Jan-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha GOTHCON XV << Here it is, look it over and pu

2042  07-Jan-91 Arthur Green      Aslan in Spinward Marches << This has probabl

2043  07-Jan-91 Mark F. Cook      "What sort of man reads TML?" << 

2044  07-Jan-91 Mark F. Cook      "What sort of man reads TML?" [again] << My m

2045  08-Jan-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: Origins of Races << > The Aslan and Hiver

2046  08-Jan-91 zonker%ihlpf.att. The origin of the Aslan << Bertil wrote that 

2047  08-Jan-91 al646@cleveland.F Military PBEM << From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsde

2048  09-Jan-91 wilson m liaw     re:survey << Wow! I guess that survey made me

2049  09-Jan-91 Rob Miracle       Re: 2044: "What sort of man reads TML?" [agai

2050  09-Jan-91 Mark F. Cook      Automating a starship? << Here's stumper that

2051  09-Jan-91 Mark F. Cook      TDR SIG "hiccup" << If any of you tried to se

2052  10-Jan-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Traveller and the youngsters << In messag

2053  10-Jan-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Origins of Races << In article (2045) <ad

2054  10-Jan-91 Rob Miracle       Re: 2050: Automating a starship? << In messag



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2040

From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se

Subject: Re: Inspirational Reading

Date: Mon, 7 Jan 91 14:08:47 MET



In message 2035 <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil> (Robert S. Dean) writes:

> I once uploaded a message that didn't take on the subject

> of inspirational reading for Traveller games.  What has anybody else read

> that really makes them think about Traveller?



  Greg Bear: EON



  Especially the scene where the russian marines disembark from their orbital

transfer vehicles and assaults the asteroid. It might be alittle lowtech for

traveller (more like 2300 actually) but certainly possible with the additions 

of the "One small step" articles.



  There is also a lot of ideas for anyone that plans to do anything involving

the Ancients. The Pi-meter actually found it's way into my campaign as an

artifact when the pc-s were hunting for the elusive towers of Sharrip.





  Stanislaw Lem (sp?): SOLARIS



  If you look inside the outer shell, there is a hard-sf story inside that

might well take place in the Traveller universe.

  I can imagine the IISS touching down on Solaris to survey it and try to

establish contact. The NAS would go nuts:)

  



> My favorites:  Michael McCollum ANTARES DAWN and ANTARES PASSAGE

>                Lois McMaster Bujold: Everything she has written

>                Robert Heinlein: THE MOON IS A HARSH MISTRESS

>                Poul Anderson: Most of his futur history series

>                               (Falkayn and Van Rijn, Flandry)



  The stories involving merchants (Van Rijn?) is very travelleresque.



>                Niven and Pournelle: THE MOTE IN GOD'S EYE



  IMHO, Traveller is very influenced by Niven. The ships in the old boardgame 

"Imperium" about the n Interstellar Wars travel using something that seems like

the Langston drive from Mote and Codominium.

  (They jump along certain lines between stars)



  There is also a article on jumpdrives in an old JTAS (Don't remember the 

number, but I think the article was by Marc Miller himself) that states that

ships will exit from jump only at certain locations in a system. Which locations

was determined by the composition of the system. This might also be shades of

the Langston drive.



  Then there is the Langston field...



  The Aslan and Hiver also seems to have been initially inspired by Kzinti and

Puppeteers. Not that they are copies of them, no way, but there is some 

similarities (as well as great differences). If they have gone through the 

same process of change as the official view of the Zhodanis, I imagine that

the similarities might have been greater when they were first introduced.



  (On the other hand, a old Traveller-player here on Chalmers is dead sure that

Zhodani, Aslan and Vargr are thinly disguised versions of Russians, Samurai-

era Japanese and Mexicans as they are viewed in American folklore. Don't ask

me, he's the resident expert on Japan too, and when he recounted the 

similarities it sounded at least possible)



- - -bertil-

"Hell is the place with Zhodani police, Vilani engineers, Solomani population 

 and Vargr politicians."

"And K'Kree chefs!"

"Yes, and K'Kree chefs."



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2041

From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se

Subject: GOTHCON XV

Date: Sat, 5 Jan 91 18:29:22 MET



Here it is, look it over and put it on the list if you think it is ok.



[Of course this is okay, Bertil! -- James]



- - -bertil-

*******************************************************************************



                               GOTHCON XV 



                   29th of March to 31th of March 1991



			       GOTHENBURG



			         SWEDEN





      Somehow, I got inside the dangerspace the GOTHCON press-gang so now I 

   toil with organizing the official tournaments...



      What is GOTHCON? A Con, of course, more specific the Gothenburg Con, now 

   on it's 15th year and world famous in the whole of Sweden (and some parts of

   Norway).



      Why tell this to the TML? Well, one of the official tournaments is a

   TRAVELLER tournament (Not MegaTraveller, since it is is written by two 

   persons who were there during the good old days). From the papers that are

   being sent out now (but somewhat translated:) :



   TRAVELLER



   Organizers: Bo"rjesson & Halle'n of Bifrost (The Chalmers RPG and Boardgames

						organization.

   Type: RPG for teams ( 5 persons )

   Time: Friday 1500-1945

   Admission charge: 100SEK (about $16, in addition to the charge of the con.)

   Knowledge Required: None

 

   "5000 years into the future, in a world where mankind just is a race out on

   the perimeter, and where the Imperium rule thousands of planets, there is,

   on the outskirts of the Imperium a planet not wholely unlike Earth.

   On it's northen hemisphere there is a idyllic valley with about a dozen

   farms.

   One of the farms is redder than the other and has whiter corners. The 

   Xenokatas family live there.

   Little do they know..."





      Apart from TRAVELLER, the organized tournaments include ASL, Britannica,

   Call of Cthulhu, CarWars, Civilization, Diplomacy, Illuminati, Junta, 

   AD&D2ed, AD&D2ed II, Kremlin, Paranoia, MERP, RQIII and WH40K.

      Independent tournaments include Micro, Fire In The East, Corporation Wars,

   Shotgun Mission, Ruinworld, Bloodbowl and a RPGA AD&D2ed tournament.



   

      I will be on the premises viritually around the clock from Friday to

   Saturday, answering questions, giving directions, and using a blowtorch to

   convince organizers of individual torunaments that the adventures should be 

   ready more than 5 minutes before play is about to begin:) (Bo"rjesson and

   Halle'n have a long history of finishing before the deadline runs out so no

   shadow should fall on them.)



      Swedish cons are somewhat different from the US/UK type. It has been told

   to me that our cons are more similar to small US/UK ones, in that there

   is a small number of participants (around 500 for Gothcon) that play *alot*

   and socialize somewhat less during the con.

      (Don't ask me. I've never been to any US/UK con. My knowledge of US/UK 

   cons in general come from pure hearsay and "Bimbos of the Death Sun" :)



      One additional difference from US/UK cons is ofcourse that most people on

   GOTHCON speak Swedish, but most Swedes speak English, especially those who

   are involved in RPG and Boardgaming.



      Anyway, if any TMLers know that you'll be in Gothenburg during that time,

   call me. I might even be able to smuggle you in past the ticket booth as

   "Internationally famous TRAVELLER experts from the US" :)

   



   Bertil Jonell, Tournament responsible for GOTHCON XV

   NET: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se  VOICE: +46 300 61004 



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2042

Date:         Mon, 07 Jan 91 13:59:40 GMT

From: Arthur Green <AJGREEN%IRLEARN@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>

Subject:      Aslan in Spinward Marches



This has probably been asked and answered before, in which case I

apologise for wasting bandwidth ... what are the Aslan ihatei doing in

the Spinward Marches? My copy of MegaTrav shows a large portion of Glisten

and some of Trin's Veil under Aslan control. I recently got my hands on a

copy of Traveller Digest 2? (either 20 or 21) which included an article on

Aslan in the Trojan Reaches - apparently they're civilian settlers, not

conquerors. So are the Aslan in the Spinward Marches also settlers or do we

have a war situation there?



 - Arthur Green

   University College Dublin Computing Services -- AJGREEN@IRLEARN.BITNET

                                                   AJGREEN@IRLEARN.UCD.IE

   "Happiness is a warm low berth"



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2043

From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>

Subject: "What sort of man reads TML?"

Date: Mon, 7 Jan 91 16:56:26 PST







------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2044

From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>

Subject: "What sort of man reads TML?" [again]

Date: Mon, 7 Jan 91 22:12:20 PST



My mailer apparently barfed yesterday, leaving all of you with a (no doubt)

cryptic subject line and no message!  Here's what it SHOULD have contained.



                "This time, for sure!"

                                - Bullwinkle T. Moose

                "Aw, Bullwinkle!  That trick NEVER works!"

                                - Rocket J. Squirrel



        - Mark C.

===============================================================================

Well, here it is, at last.  The breakdown of the 53 responses (out of

approximately 260 readers) to the TML Survey.  If the subject line text

sounds sexist, wait until after you've read the results of question

number 5 before you pass judgement.



GENERAL BACKGROUND:

1. Name:



    The following 53 people responded to the TML survey:



    Adrian Hurt             Gary Schreiber          Matthew Harelick

    Andrew M. Salamon       Iain Fogg               Metlay

    Andy Coombes            J. David Nilles         Nicholas P. Sylvain

    Arthur Green            J. Robert Suckling      Paul Baughman

    Arturo Perez            James Glanville         Paul Timothy Dale

    Bart Massey             James Nelson            Peter L. Berghold

    Bayliss McLeod          JamesTPerkins           Richard Johnson

    Bertil Jonell           Jan L. Peterson         Rob Miracle

    Bob Mahoney             Jim Baranski            Robert Poole

    Brad Post               Jim Cheetham            Robert S. Dean

    Brent L. Woods          Jim Vassilakos          Ron Abramson

    Burton Choinski         John J. Wilber          Simon Anderson

    C. Harald Koch          Jonathan Clark          Steven B. Fellows

    Carl Rigney             Joshua Levy             Ted Kim

    Dan Corrin              Karl-Koenig Koenigsson  Tony L. Hayes

    Derek MacColl           Mark F. Cook            Wilson Mac Liaw

    Eric Halil              Mark Leymaster          Yngve Larsson

    Eric M. Sergienko       Martin V Howard         



    BTW, the winner for the random drawing was Karl-Koenig Koenigsson.



2. Address:



    We got 21 from the Eastern US, 17 from the Western US (using the

    Mississippi River as an arbitrary dividing line), and 15 from

    outside the US.  Here's the breakdown:



    EASTERN UNITED STATES:

    5 - Massachusetts (Asland, Bedford, Boston, Cambridge, Groton)

    4 - Maryland (Beltsville, Chevy Chase, Churchville, Edgewood)

    3 - New Jersey (Fair Haven, Neptune, Newark)

    2 - Pennsylvainia (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh)

    1 each from Connecticut, New Hampshire, New York, Virginia, Ohio,

                Kentucky, and Indiana.



    WESTERN UNITED STATES:

    8 - California (Los Angeles, Riverside, San Diego, Culver City,

                    Mountain View, Portola Valley, Sunnyvale, Berkeley)

    4 - Oregon (Hillsboro, Portland, Corvallis, Eugene)

    2 - Idaho (both from Boise)

    1 each from Utah, Colorado, and North Dakota.



    INTERNATIONAL:

    4 - Sweden (2 from Linkoping)

    3 - Australia (all from Brisbane)

    3 - England

    2 - Scotland (both from Edinburgh)

    2 - Canada

    1 - Ireland.



3. Phone:



    Two people explicitly indicated that they didn't have one, and one

    other person left out the info.  Of the remaining 50 responses, 43

    listed a single number (whether home or work was usually not specified)

    and the remaining 7 listed both work and home numbers.



4. Age:



    I got one ambiguous reply (which I discarded).  Based on the

    remaining 52 values, here's the spread:



      Minimum age: 19 years

      Maximum age: 45 years

      Average age: 26.7 years



5. Sex:



    53 responses, all Male.  The "Subject" line says it all.  Either

    we don't have many female readers on the TML, or they're not

    talking to us.



6. Occupation:



    This wasn't much of a surprise either.  Of the 53 responses, 27 were

    from people with computer-related jobs (SW engineer, programmer, etc.),

    5 of whom are Managers.  22 of the responses were from students, 13 of

    whom are in Comp. Sci. or Comp. Eng. fields, 7 in other fields, and 2

    who weren't specific enough to be determined.  The remaining 4 responses

    were from people in other professions (Attorney, Chemical Engineer,

    Mechanical Engineer, Data Entry).



7. Employer:



    30 Academic institutions appear as either employers or current residence

    (U. of Queensland appears three times, MIT twice, all others are unique

    entries).  Of the remaining 23 employers, there are only 2 which appear

    multiple times: Hewlett-Packard Co. appears three times, and the United

    States Army appears twice.



8. Marital Status:



    Pretty cut-n-dried: 33 unmarried, 19 married, 1 ambiguous.  (He checked

    both yes AND no; go figure.)



COMPUTER SYSTEMS:



9. How did you find out about the TML?



    It looks like rec.games.frp is the TML's biggest source of new readers.

    The breakdown is:

      [ 7] From a friend

      [13] From a list of computer mailing lists

      [28] From an "advertisement" on rec.games.frp

      [ 5] Other: GEnie's MegaTraveller BBS

                  Cousin

                  I started it.  [Cute, Jim.  Real cute. :-)]

                  "ad" on GMAST-L (equivalent to r.g.frp)

                  Can't remember



10. On what type of computer/system do you access the TML?



    About two-thirds of the respondents are getting the TML via a technical

    workstation running some flavor of UN*X.  For those interested, the

    types of systems that got significant mention are: 12 Sun workstations,

    8 VAXs, 3 HP workstations, 2 Apollo workstations, 3 Macintoshes, 2 Amigas, 

    2 Sequents, 2 Solbournes, and a scattering of IBM PC clones and mainframes,

    along with 4 people who apparently didn't know what they were using.  Oddly

    enough, a few of the people who turned in surveys think UN*X itself is

    a type of computer!  That seems only fair, considering the fact that

    several of the TML members aren't really in the "computer business".

    After all, ask any non-chemist about the details of a Krebb's Cycle

    and watch the blank looks appear.



11. How many hours per month do you spend reading TML?



     5 - less than 2 hours

    13 - 2-4 hours

    17 - 5-8 hours

    12 - 9-16 hours

     3 - 17-24 hours

     3 - Over 24 hours



12. Do you know how to access the TML archives?



    36 - Yes

    17 - No

    NOTE: Many of the "Yes" answers indicated that they knew how but

    lacked the actual capability for anonymous FTP.  The E-mail archive

    server appears to be unreliable enough that most people avoid it.



13. What other other national BBSs/networks do you use?



    Since rec.games.frp is the big recruiter for TML readers, these

    results were to be expected:



    39 - UseNet

    11 - BitNet

     6 - GEnie

     6 - None - I don't use any other BBS 

     4 - FidoNet

     3 - CompuServe

     2 - CSnet



     4 - Other: Internet

     2 - Other: FreeNet

     1 - Other: Applelinke

     1 - Other: Local BBS ("The Pyre")



14. How many hours per month do you spend reading other BBSs/networks?

    

    [ 8] less than 2 hours

    [10] 5-8 hours

    [ 8] 9-16 hours

    [10] 17-24 hours

    [17] Over 24 hours



    Given the heavy clumping at the high end, it would appear that the

    average TML reader is (as one survey respondent put it) a serious

    "data junkie".



15. Do you regularly use other computers/systems?



    45 - Yes

     8 - No



16. If 'Yes' on the previous question, what other types?



    Broad selection of responses here.  The run-away winners in this

    catagory were Apple Macintoshes, IBM PCs (and clones), Sun workstations,

    and DEC VAXs.  Honorable mention should go to the Atari ST, along with

    SGI, NeXT and HP workstations.  After that it was all over the board.

    All other responses were either the only mention for a given system,

    or were too ambiguous to be catagorized.



17. What computer languages do you regularly use?



    C and Pascal were the most frequently named languages, however

    anything that got mentioned more than once is listed below.  Two

    survey respondents indicated that they didn't regularly use any

    programming language (not surprising) and, of the other singular

    languages mentioned, one person indicated that he used Snobol,

    which caused me several long minutes of reminiscing.



      41 - C (ANSII Std. and K&R)

      20 - Pascal                

      12 - FORTRAN

      11 - UN*X shell scripts (Bourne, C, and Korne)

       9 - C++

       9 - BASIC (various flavors)

       4 - Lisp (various flavors)

       4 - Assembler (assorted processors)

       3 - Modula

       3 - HyperCard/HyperTalk

       3 - AWK

       2 - Postscript

       2 - Perl



18. How many years of computer/programming experience do you have?



    Not everyone responded with a specific number, but enough did to

    make to following ballpark determination:



      Minimum: < 1 year

      Maximum:  25 years

      Average:   9.5 years (much higher than I expected!)



    One respondent also included this rather wry observation:



        "That is a bad metric, Some may have used BASIC

         for 20 years and that is little or no experence at all."



19. How did you acquire your computer/programming experience?

 

    14 people indicated that their experience was derived solely from

    formal training.  7 indicated that they were entirely self-taught.

    31 indicated that they fell into both catagories.



20. Do you have free access to the TML?



  Out of 53 respondents, only 1 indicated that he did not have free access.



21. If 'Yes' to question 20, how?



    24 - Via college/university

    22 - Via employer

     6 - Via employer AND college/university (either because of access

                to both, or because the employer IS a college or univiersity.)



22. If 'No' to question 20, by what pay service do you receive the TML?



    The 1 survey respondent that gets TML via pay service indicated that

    he had a flat-fee-per-year account on a public-access UN*X system.



23. Which of the following computer graphics formats are available to you?



    Here are all the formats that got 10 or more votes each (along with

    the number of votes each got).



    [36] PostScript "image"     [16] EPS

    [34] GIF                    [14] XBM

    [28] MacPaint               [12] PC Paintbrush

    [20] PICT                   [11] raw grayscale

    [18] Sun raster             [11] XWD

    [16] TIFF                   [10] Usenix FaceSaver

    [16] Sun icon               [10] IFF ILBM



    If we start using standard interchange formats for TML, it looks like

    we'll be using PostScript "image", GIF, and MacPaint.



24. Of these formats, which do you prefer?



    The votes for those top 3 formats were:



        16 - GIF

        13 - Postscript 

         4 - MacPaint



   so it looks like GIF wins by a nose.  For those of you that can't

   use GIF, or just don't like it, don't worry.  We've got enough

   "guru" horse-power spread over the readership base that we should

   be able to accommodate almost everybody's limitations.



ROLE-PLAYING:

25. Besides Traveller, what other RPG's do you enjoy?



    Big surprise (for me anyway): AD&D by over 2 to 1!  Here's a list of

    all the RPG's that got 2 or more votes (and the number of votes they got).



      27 - AD&D                 3 - Star Trek RPG

      15 - GURPS                3 - Albedo

      10 - Twilight:2000        2 - Star Fleet Battles

       9 - Runequest            2 - Stalking the Night Fantastic

       9 - 2300 AD              2 - Space:1889

       8 - The Fantasy trip     2 - Space Opera

       8 - Shadowrun            2 - Ringworld

       8 - Call of Cthulhu      2 - Other Suns

       7 - Top Secret           2 - MechWarrior

       7 - Paranoia             2 - Marvel Super Heroes

       6 - CyberPunk            2 - Gamma World

       6 - Champions            2 - CyberSpace

       4 - Rolemaster           2 - BattleTech

       3 - Stormbringer         2 - Ars Magica

       3 - Star Wars



    Additionally, 4 people indicated that they played nothing other

    than MegaTraveller.  Now that's what I call devotion!



    The list of other RPG's mentioned is, to say the least, "diverse".

    In alphabetical order, they are: Aftermath, Arduin, Boot Hill,

    Bunnies'n'Burrows, Bushido, Car Wars, D&D, Daredevils, DragonQuest,

    En Garde, FTL2448, Fantasy Warhammer, Fringeworthy, Golden Heros,

    HarnMaster, Hero System, James Bond, Jorune, Judge Dredd, Lace and Steel,

    Legionnaire (Renegade Legions), Metamorphosis Alpha, NERO (A Live Medieval

    Fantasy Weekend RolePlaying Group in New England), Pendragon, Powers &

    Perils, SPAM(?), Spacemaster, Star Ace, Star Frontiers, The Arcanum,

    and Tunnels & Trolls/Monsters Monsters.



26. How many of these RPG's do you actually own?



    This is a hard question to quantify.  All but two people responding own

    at least one or two of the games they play, and most of the respondents

    own ALL (or almost all) the games they play regularly.



27. How many hours per month do you dedicate to ACTUALLY playing RPGs?



    Pretty straight-line distribution here:

      11 - less than 2 hours

      13 - 5-8 hours

      10 - 9-16 hours

      10 - 17-24 hours

       9 - Over 24 hours



28. What is the average age of your gaming group?



     1 - under 15

     1 - 15-17

     3 - 18-20

    19 - 21-25

    19 - 26-30

     8 - 31-35

     0 - over 35



    This confirms what many of us suspected: TML readership represents

    college-age or above individuals.  What surprised me is the fact that

    player numbers drop off sharply above age 30.  However, since role-

    playing (in almost all forms) first appeared in the early '70s, when

    the oldest respondents would have been about 15 years old, I guess

    it does sort of make sense.



29. How many hours per month do you spend in other RPG-related activities

    (designing new adventures, painting minatures, etc.)?

    

    [ 9] less than 2 hours

    [ 7] 2-4 hours

    [11] 5-8 hours

    [13] 9-16 hours  

    [ 6] 17-24 hours

    [ 8] Over 24 hours



    Nice shallow bell-curve there.  Good.  That means that only a few

    of you pitiful wretches let this game dominate your lives. :-)



30. How far would you be willing to travel to attend a TML convention?



    [ 2] Wouldn't attend a TML convention

    [ 8] less than 50 miles

    [17] less than 100 miles

    [ 8] less than 300 miles

    [ 6] less than 500 miles

    [10] over 500 miles



    Now this is interesting: the two spikes are people who'd travel

    less than 2 hours to attend, and people who'd go almost ANYWHERE

    to attend (I, alas, fall into the 2nd group; ready my padded room

    at Bellvue :-)).



SUMMARY:



    Based on this somewhat-less-than-scientific survey, it would appear

    that the average TML reader is an unmarried, male, US citizen in his

    late 20's, who is in the computer industry (either as a student or an

    employee).  He's been a C programmer for about 10 years (as a result

    of both formal education and self-instruction), uses a UN*X workstation

    as his primary computer, and reads the TML and other BBSs/newsgroups

    about 24 hours per month.  Besides (Mega)Traveller, he enjoys AD&D

    and spends about 12 hours per month role-playing with other people

    (who are slightly younger than him) or in other RPG-related activities.

    All in all, a pretty "vanilla" sort of dude.  Who would have dreamed

    that all these years after the novel was first published, "Walter

    Mitty" would have his very own mail list? :-)



Coming up next: the first annual TML "Livestock & Sexual Preferences" survey!



Later,



        Mark F. Cook



USMail: User Interface Technical Support

        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation

        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330



INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com

          markc%hpcvss.cv.hp.com@relay.hp.com



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2045

From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>

Subject: Re: Origins of Races

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 91 11:19:52 GMT



>   The Aslan and Hiver also seems to have been initially inspired by Kzinti and

> Puppeteers. Not that they are copies of them, no way, but there is some 

> similarities (as well as great differences). If they have gone through the 

> same process of change as the official view of the Zhodanis, I imagine that

> the similarities might have been greater when they were first introduced.



Guess what those races are in fact based on?



>   (On the other hand, a old Traveller-player here on Chalmers is dead sure that

> Zhodani, Aslan and Vargr are thinly disguised versions of Russians, Samurai-

> era Japanese and Mexicans as they are viewed in American folklore. Don't ask

> me, he's the resident expert on Japan too, and when he recounted the 

> similarities it sounded at least possible)



For "Mexicans", substitute "Indians".  As in "Red Indians", a.k.a. Native

Americans.  The Plains Indians, to be precise - the old Vargr module made

reference to them in the section on how to role-play Vargr.  So if you want

to do space-age westerns, go for the coreward borders.



- - -- 

 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott



 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs

 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2046

From: zonker%ihlpf.att.com@RELAY.CS.NET

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 91 08:16 CST

Subject: The origin of the Aslan



Bertil wrote that an old Traveller player thought that the Aslan were based

on Samuri era Japanese.  Actually he is very close.  The original Aslan were

based on 1905 era Japanese.  I know this because Aslan predate Traveller by

several years and were first seen in a homebrewed RPG about a colony called

Elizabethia (this RPG was probably the inspiration (almost first playtest) for

Traveller and pioneered much of the rules ).  Frank Chadwick who was GM had

a drawing of an Aslan in a Japanese 1905 era uniform charging with the bayonet.

Since the tech level of the colony where the player characters lived was

just post musket and pike era these guys were pretty scary.  Unfortunately

the game (probably the best I ever played in) devolved into Chaos before we

met the Aslan.



I don't know as much about the exact origins of Vargyr, Zhondai, and Hivers as

they were created to flesh out Traveller.



 					Non Cuniculus Est,



					    Tom Harris





------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2047

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 91 09:31:09 -0500

From: al646@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (T. L. Hayes)

Subject: Military PBEM







From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>





>Item  5: A MILITARY CAMPAIGN PBEM  Since I never actually  get  a 

>chance  to  run  anything, I am considering  the  possibility  of 

>running  a military oriented game over the net.  Realistically  I 

>couldn't  accept more than about five players.  The basic  situa-

>tion  would  be this:  A small mercenary unit  with  a  financial 

>problem has been approached by the government in exile of a small 

>country which was overrun by a larger neighbor.  They would  like 

>to liberate their homeland, but have very few resources.  The pay 

>would be better than the training duties the company is currently 

>surviving on.  Emphasis on military ingenuity/irregular  warfare, 

>and  an  exploration  of how grav vehicles  would  really  affect 

>combat.  If it works, and I can keep it up, there would be poten-

>tial  for expansion or starting a new game on a different  topic.  

>Set in the Spinward Marches...



I would be interested.  I like military adventures and usually end up 

running all my games that way.  I don't mean to it just happens.  If

you decide to actually follow through with this PLEASE let me know.



Thanks



TLH



- - --

T.L.Hayes                  |  General Mail : al646@cleveland.Freenet.Edu

MIT/Lincoln Laboratory     |  Personal Mail: hayes@ll.mit.edu

Lexington, MA              |  (Personal Mail Address is in Beta Test!!!)



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2048

From: wilson m liaw <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>

Subject: re:survey

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 91 8:16:37 EST



Wow! I guess that survey made me the youngest member of this list!!!



				Mac





------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2049

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 91 10:31 EST

From: Rob Miracle <RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Subject: Re: 2044: "What sort of man reads TML?" [again]



Mark, I would like to draw one further observation from Question 28:



> 28. What is the average age of your gaming group?

>

>     1 - under 15

>     1 - 15-17

>     3 - 18-20

>    19 - 21-25

>    19 - 26-30

>     8 - 31-35

>     0 - over 35



Besides there being no one over age 35, there is a low number of respondents

below age 21.  This indicates that to me, that most of the readership comes

from people who a:

    Work for a company on a large world wide network

    Attend a University that is on a large world wide network

    Are experienced enough with the network to find and figure out how to

       use the network and the mailing list.



So the 21-25 gang catches the Juniors, Seniors and Grad Students and some of

the employees.  This implies that the entire survey is skewed to those types

of people.  Of course we all expected that.



Also, the new kids don't have the Traveller Opprotunities that we once had.

At least here in Louisville (Yes, I am the one from KY) I can count on 2 hands

to total number of Traveller items for sale in the four stores that have gaming

supplys.  I havn't seen a new Challenge since about issue 28 or 29.  They had

one copy of MegaTraveller.  Also, finding Traveller groups is difficult.

Our gaming group only has 1 or 2 who like Traveller besides me.  The rest are

the hard core fantasy types.  Now, when I convince them to do Traveller, I

either ref for one of the other GMs does the Traveller with AD&D rules and AD&D

characters.  We fiddled with GURPS Space and it had some success, but I was

refing it and being a Traveller born space person, I had trouble adapting to

the "Environment"  (Not the rules, but the concepts, different planet

descriptors, different ship descriptors, etc).



Any way, the young players aren't being exposed to Traveller and with there not

having been a serious "Space" film out in a while it has hurt the popularity of

Sci-fi for the little ones.  They see Star Trek, but that isn't the same.



When Traveller was at its peak here was when Star Wars, Alien, Ice Pirates (so

it wasn't serious), and other such movies were coming out right and left.

Maybe if Spelberg and Lucas get together they can create:  MegaTraveller, the

Movie!  (Hmmm, as a side thought, I bet we, the TML could write a nice script)

Then we could have mass marketing, MegaTraveller figures, bubble gum cards,

watches, sleeping bags, etc.   (The problems of having a 4 year old Teenage

Mutant Ninja Turtle Child)



Off of the Soapbox

Thanks

Rob



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2050

From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>

Subject: Automating a starship?

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 91 11:12:43 PST



Here's stumper that one of my MT campaign players just handed me the

other day.



We were talking about the campaign and he said (paraphrased) ,"As soon as

I get some more cash, I'm going to have the ship's computer upgraded so

that just one person can operate the whole thing."  This stopped me cold.

This ship currently requires a minimum crew of three: pilot, navigator,

and engineer.  The Ref. rules say that's the MINIMUM.  There are no

additional rules for anything like what my player wants to do.  Now,

I can wing it and allow him to do what he wants, but I'm concerned on

two points.



First, what would be the most logical/least-rule-bending way to do what

he wants?  My initial reaction is have him buy two stationary robots

(one for engineering and one for nav.) and require a live pilot at

all times.  My reasoning is that a 'mere' computer could never be smart

enough (within MT guidelines) to do the jobs, and it would require at

least some synaptic processing, hence robots.  My robot design skills

are pretty much non-existant, but I guess this is a good excuse to

learn how, huh?



Second, assuming that I do allow him to succeed, what effect will it

have on game balance?  I mean, I assume that GDW/DGP put those crew

minimums in there for a reason.  Will allowing a single person with

Pilot-1 to fly around the Imperium in a 200 ton Free Trader screw

things up?  My initial reaction is "No", but I feel like I'm over-

looking some points.



What do you folks think?



        Mark F. Cook



USMail: User Interface Technical Support

        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation

        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330



INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com

          markc%hpcvss.cv.hp.com@relay.hp.com



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2051

From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>

Subject: TDR SIG "hiccup"

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 91 11:16:27 PST



If any of you tried to send mail to any of the TDR SIG addresses

over Jan. 8-9, and it bounced, it's because I was tightening up

some system security holes on hpcvss.cv.hp.com ("bifrost") and

the SIG archive files got their permissions changed such that

the mailer daemon was unable to write to them.  It's all fixed

now, so you can re-send your messages without any further problems.



Later,



        - Mark F. Cook (TDR Archivist)



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2052

From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se

Subject: Re: Traveller and the youngsters

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 91 10:58:17 MET



In message (2049) <RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> (Rob Miracle) wrote:



> Any way, the young players aren't being exposed to Traveller and with there not

> having been a serious "Space" film out in a while it has hurt the popularity of

> Sci-fi for the little ones.  They see Star Trek, but that isn't the same.



  On the other hand, there have been even fewer decent fantasy films and still

(It seem to me at least) the Fantasy side of roleplaying dominate.



  (One positive note when it comes to "renewal and recruiting" is that the

new version of the MegaTraveller1: The Zhodani Conspiracy have got very 

favorable reviews. I was afraid when I first heard about it that it would

actually do Traveller a disfavour, but it seems that I was overly pessimistic.)



> When Traveller was at its peak here was when Star Wars, Alien, Ice Pirates (so

> it wasn't serious), and other such movies were coming out right and left.

> Maybe if Spelberg and Lucas get together they can create:  MegaTraveller, the

> Movie!

  

  If it had been Lucasfilm that had made the game I talked about above, then

maybe...



> (Hmmm, as a side thought, I bet we, the TML could write a nice script)



  I have heard rumours from listees (I'm not sure if it was in private email or

on the list, so I'll let the person confirm it himself, if he wants to) about

MegaTraveller noves. 

  A marketing success like TSR's Dragonlance but for MegaT would probably 

revitalize a whole lot, but that is a wild pipe-dream.



> Then we could have mass marketing, MegaTraveller figures, bubble gum cards,

> watches, sleeping bags, etc.



  I can see it: Kids running around waving plastic FGMP-15's and playing Zho's

and Marines (or Lucan and Dulinor:)



> Rob



- - -bertil-

Scenes from Core:



"Take THAT!" "Ouch! Whaaaaa! He hurt me!" "Serves you right, Moron!" "No, You

 are a Moron, Ha Ha Moron! Moron!" "I'm not!" "Are so! Are so!"



"Are the kids playing Lucan and Dulinor now again?"

"No, that *is* Lucan and Dulinor..."



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2053

From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se

Subject: Re: Origins of Races

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 91 11:36:17 MET



In article (2045) <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk> (Adrian Hurt) writes:

  [I wrote:]

> >   The Aslan and Hiver...

> 

> Guess what those races are in fact based on?



  Please, enlighten us. I've got a major interest in FRP trivia and little known

stories. Stories of how the Traveller races was created, the various influences

on them and why they were named as they were are high on my list of "Nice to

know" things.

  (The name "Hivers" are self explanatory. I have read CS Lewis so I know about

Aslan, but Vargr are more obscure. The Swedish word for wolf is viritually

identical:)



> >(On the other hand, a old Traveller-player here on Chalmers is dead sure that

> > Zhodani, Aslan and Vargr are thinly disguised versions of Russians, Samurai-

> > era Japanese and Mexicans as they are viewed in American folklore. Don't ask

> > me, he's the resident expert on Japan too, and when he recounted the 

> > similarities it sounded at least possible)

> 

> For "Mexicans", substitute "Indians".  As in "Red Indians", a.k.a. Native

> Americans.  The Plains Indians, to be precise - the old Vargr module made

> reference to them in the section on how to role-play Vargr.



  I think he was referring to the "Banana Republic" stereotype with a

revolution once per year, juntas that fragment due to infighting, a charismatic

rebel in every streetcorner and ludicrously overloaded uniforms.

  

  And there *is* a Zhodani tank that the Imperials call the Z-80 :)



>  Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs



In article (2046) zonker%ihlpf.att.com@RELAY.CS.NET (Tom Harris) writes:

> 

> [About the orgin of Aslan]



  Thanks, I'll pass it on.



> I don't know as much about the exact origins of Vargyr, Zhondai, and Hivers as

> they were created to flesh out Traveller.



  Wasn't the Keith(?) brothers involved in creating the Hivers. I think I've 

seen an article by one of them in an old JTAS that was an introduction to

Hivers.



> 					    Tom Harris

 

- - -bertil- 



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2054

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 91 08:35 EST

From: Rob Miracle <RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Subject: Re: 2050: Automating a starship?



In message <2050) markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM (Mark F. Cook) writes:



>We were talking about the campaign and he said (paraphrased) ,"As soon as

> ------------------------------

>I get some more cash, I'm going to have the ship's computer upgraded so

>that just one person can operate the whole thing."  This stopped me cold.

>This ship currently requires a minimum crew of three: pilot, navigator,

>and engineer.  The Ref. rules say that's the MINIMUM.  There are no

>additional rules for anything like what my player wants to do.  Now,

>I can wing it and allow him to do what he wants, but I'm concerned on

>two points.



Most things I have seen lets the Pilot double as Navigator.  So that is one

position that can be easily removed.  If you wanted to (its not in the rules)

but you could make each skill operate at a -1 penelty since one person is

trying to do two jobs.  The ship could survive without a pilot more than it can

an engineer.  You have to have some one fix problems when they come up.

Traveller robots simply do not have the reasoning and intuition to figure out

where problems are.  An Engineer with good computing skills and a large

computer could probably handle a 200 ton free trader.  But I would do things

like have the ship constantly attacked by pirates and see just how long he

wants to be crewless.  Get him to carry passengers, they need Steward service.

Hey, let him have his one computer and one crew member, make him carry a real

problem passenger who just happens to make it to the bridge while he is in

engineering and turn the ship into deep space.



>First, what would be the most logical/least-rule-bending way to do what

>he wants?



Remember, the rules are just guidelines.  If you don't have a problem with him

doing that then by all means let him.  You can charge him a fortune for some of

the software and robots, and since some of it is 'custom' there may be "Hidden

Features" that can lead to all sorts of adventures.



>Second, assuming that I do allow him to succeed, what effect will it

>have on game balance?



I don't think game balance is at threat.  What is in trouble is the "Party

Cohesion".  When you say "Its my ship, I don't need a crew, you are just

passangers so give me 10000cr per jump"  The rest of the party isn't going to

tolerate that long and will either take the ship from him forcefully or leave

to find their own way.  If he is your only player then it isn't a problem.  The

crew positions are there to give players something to do and give them a sense

of purpose.



Ask yourself how the rest of the party react to not having anything to do

during space flight? and during the week in jump space?



What would I do?



I would force him to have two members of the crew, a Pilot/Nav and an Engineer.

The larger the ship the more crew and thats that is needed.



Rob



------------------------------



End of TML Bundle

*****************



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TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,

maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.



------------------------------------------------------------



Date: Tue Feb 12 13:53:23 PST 1991

From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)

Subject: TML Bundle #166: Table of Contents



-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------

2055  10-Jan-91 al646@cleveland.F Re: (2050) Automating a starship? << From: Ma

2056  10-Jan-91 Lesley Grant      TML Vehicle Design Book << There was some tal

2057  10-Jan-91 "Robert S. Dean"  One Man Band... << Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss

2058  10-Jan-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: Automating a starship << Mark F. Cook <ma

2059  10-Jan-91 True Friends Chan Automating a Starship << First off, I believe

2060  10-Jan-91 bonnevil@acc.stol Re: Automating a starship << In the campaigns

2061  10-Jan-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Military Campaign << Well, I got two people w

2062  10-Jan-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Thinking Ahead << I'd be interested in meetin

2063  10-Jan-91 f3w@mentor.cc.pur Automated Ships << You have crews because you

2064  10-Jan-91 woodsb@ecn.purdue Re: (2050) Automating a starship? << In messa

2065  10-Jan-91 George William He Re: Automated Vehicles << I have a character 

2066  11-Jan-91 Adrian Hurt       Practical Jokes in Traveller << d9bertil@dtek

2067  11-Jan-91 Arthur Green      Single-crew ships (big ones that is) << Hmmm 

2068  11-Jan-91 True Friends Chan automation << Someone suggested that today's 

2069  11-Jan-91 METLAY@vms.cis.pi Robots as crewmembers << I've only recently b



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2055

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 91 09:23:56 -0500

From: al646@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (T. L. Hayes)

Subject: Re: (2050) Automating a starship?







From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>



>We were talking about the campaign and he said (paraphrased) ,"As soon as

>I get some more cash, I'm going to have the ship's computer upgraded so

>that just one person can operate the whole thing."  This stopped me cold.

>This ship currently requires a minimum crew of three: pilot, navigator,

>and engineer.  The Ref. rules say that's the MINIMUM.  There are no

>additional rules for anything like what my player wants to do.  Now,

>I can wing it and allow him to do what he wants, but I'm concerned on

>two points.

>

>First, what would be the most logical/least-rule-bending way to do what

>he wants?  My initial reaction is have him buy two stationary robots

>(one for engineering and one for nav.) and require a live pilot at

>all times.  My reasoning is that a 'mere' computer could never be smart

>enough (within MT guidelines) to do the jobs, and it would require at

>least some synaptic processing, hence robots.  My robot design skills

>are pretty much non-existant, but I guess this is a good excuse to

>learn how, huh?

>



This is the way I would do it except you don't really need two stationary

robots, one stationary robot centrally located (perhaps tied into the main

computer) could run both positions assuming it possesed the correct skills.



>Second, assuming that I do allow him to succeed, what effect will it

>have on game balance?  I mean, I assume that GDW/DGP put those crew

>minimums in there for a reason.  Will allowing a single person with

>Pilot-1 to fly around the Imperium in a 200 ton Free Trader screw

>things up?  My initial reaction is "No", but I feel like I'm over-

>looking some points.

>



It shouldn't have any effect on game balance.  Traveller already allows

robots to be used in crew positions.  In my current campaign, the party

has one mech droid which they use as assistant engineer (the ship requires

two engineers and only one person on board has any skill).  In fact this

may be an economical way to operate a ship.  You need to consider the cost

of building and maintaining the robot plus the cost of any modification to

the ship to allow it to run automatically with the cost of hiring a crew

member to do the same job.  An engineer with skill level 1 and BRN of 1

get a salary of 500Cr/month (I think) plus lifesupport of Cr4000/month for

a total of Cr4500/month or Cr54,000 per year.  If the robot cost say

Cr200,000, it would pay for itself in only 4 years or 1/10 the life of the

ship's loan!  On the other hand a PC in that position (at least in my 

games) is cheaper because he works for no salary and your going to pay for

his life support anyway!  



I do think that the Imperium would require at least one living being on board

at all times however (ie no completely automated robot ships) because

their artificial intelligence technology is still pretty young and not

to be fully trusted.  Moreover, if *you* wanted, you could impose a -DM to

robots in the minimum crew positions during high stress situations such as

combat on the grounds that they are not truely intelligent and would not be

able to act on a hunch or knowingly exceed reccomended safty limits for the

device (ie engines) in question or such like.



This does bring up a good question that maybe should be addressed namely

"What is the role of Artificial (or better Simulated) Intelligence in

Traveller?"  How does one handle adding synaptic units to the main computers

of a ship?  It should be possible.  The more I think about this the more

questions and situations pop into my mind.  I need to think about this some

more and post a list of thoughts on the topic after I've had some time to

organize them.



Later



TLH



- - --

T.L.Hayes                  |  General Mail : al646@cleveland.Freenet.Edu

MIT/Lincoln Laboratory     |  Personal Mail: hayes@ll.mit.edu

Lexington, MA              |  (Personal Mail Address is in Beta Test!!!)



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2056

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 91 14:01:17 GMT

From: Lesley Grant <lgrant@maths.tcd.ie>

Subject: TML Vehicle Design Book



	There was some talk a while back about doing a TML version of Fighting

Ships. I am not sure much effort went into organising it but nothing appears

to have happened. I wanted a nice, easily referable to compendium of vehicles

for my own campaign so adoption my usual approach I have gone ahead and done

the TML Vehicle Design Book.

	In the various mauling to the original text I no longer have any record

of the original authors. If you want designs credited to you please send which

of the following list are yours.

	I'm not too keen on distributing it electronically. It is very large.

Also since I did it for myself it is in TeX which not too many of you out there

have. Once I've credited those who want crediting and cleaned up some bits

I will intend to make it available at basically cost price. The damn thing runs

to 161 pages so far but even with air mail postage it is unlikely to cost much

more than the GDW version. If there is enough demand I will have it printed.

	If you have designs that have not appeared on TML you would like

included go ahead and send them to me. Please chop all 20th Century comments.



				Jo Jaquinta

				lgrant@maths.tcd.ie



10 ton Fusion Rocket Module TL8

10,000 ton Rider TL15

20 ton Cargo Module TL8

200 ton Fast Courier TL15

200 ton Modular Spacecraft Frame TL8

2000 ton Rider TL15

40 ton Habitat Module TL8

40 ton Ion Drive Module TL8

40 ton Plasma Drive Module TL8

40 ton Spaceplane TL8

40 ton Spaceplane TL8

Admiral Bertil Modified Type M TL13

Aircraft Carrier TL8

Akerut Hercules Class Freighter (Type AH) TL15

Aki Exports Ranger LAV TL9

Akian Cossack APC TL9

Akian Dragoon APC TL9

Akian Hussar Light Tank TL9

Akian Ironfist SP Gun TL9

Akian Lancer Medium Tank TL9

Akian Longbow SP Gun TL9

Akian MkVII Truck TL9

Akian MkVIII Truck TL9

Akian Percheron Cargo Vehicle TL9

Akian Peregrine Hovertank TL9

Akian Shellback Armored Car TL9

Archer Light Gravtank TL10

Arrow Attack Speeder TL12

Atlantis Class Battleship TL 15

Attack Fighter

Attack Submarine TL8 "Alfa" Class

Attack Submarine TL8 "Los Angeles" Class

Ballistic Missile Sub TL8 "Typhoon" Class "Red October" subclass

Brumby Enclosed Air Raft TL11

Bumblebee Light Air Raft TL11

Catalina PBY-6A TL6 Amphibian Patrol Bomber

Chameleon Grav Tank TL10

Charger Armored Infantry Carrier TL10

Cheetah Light Tank TL8

Collace Destroyer TL13

Collace Missile Boat TL13

ConTech Mark I MiniLaunch TL15

ConTech Mark II MiniLaunch

ConTech MicroFighter TL15

Continental Defense Unit TL15

Cormorant Seaplane Fighter TL5

Courier Passenger Aircraft TL5

Curricle TL4

Darrian Fixed Wing Air/Raft TL13 "Saab" Class

Dart Combat Speeder TL10

Dependable Orbital Air Raft TL15

Destroyer TL6

Diesel Locomotive TL6

Draft Imperial 10000ton Fleet Escort TL13

Draft Imperial 10000ton Fleet Escort TL14

Draft Imperial 10000ton Fleet Escort TL15

Draft Imperial 20000ton Light Cruiser TL15

Dragonfly Light Grav Vehicle TL13

Dreadnaught TL 15, "Kokirrak" Class

Dreadnaught TL 15, "Plankwell" Class

Dreadnaught TL 15, "Tigress" Class

Dromedary Armored Recovery Vehicle TL10

Duke Boris class Mercenary Cruiser TL13

Eclipse Orbital Speeder TL13

Electric Runabout TL12

Endeavor Class Land Cruiser TL7

Expediter Long-Range Transporter TL10

Falchion Grav Tank TL12

Falchion-B Grav Tank TL12

Fast Cutter TL 15 "Sparrow" Class

Fleet Escort TL 15 "P.F. Sloan" Class

Flying Fortress B-17G TL6 Heavy Bomber

Focke-Wulf FW 190 TL6 Fighter

Folding Rotor Light Helicopter TL8

Folding Rotor Light Helicopter TL8

Folding Wing Light Aircraft

Folding Wing Light Aircraft TL8

Freedom Class Battlecruiser TL13

Freight Car TL6

Fuel Shuttle TL13

Glyptodon Walkter Tank TL13

Grav Bike TL13

Greyhound Tank TL5

Gunned Barge TL11 "Wolfchen" Class

H.B. Piper Class Attack Carrier TL15

Hammer Heavy Gravtank TL10

Heavy Attack Helicopter TL9

Heavy Attack Helicopter TL9

Heavy Cruiser TL 15 "Atlantic" Class

Heavy Fighter TL 15 "Talon" Class

Hoplite Grav Tank TL15

Hornet Light Tank TL8

Hornet VTOL Fighter/Attack TL9

Hornet VTOL Fighter/Attack TL9

Horosho M1002 Walker Tank TL10

Hummingbird Light Fighter TL7

Husky Ground Car

Ibis Medium Bomber TL6

IDP-9851 class Patrol Boat TL9

IDP-9851/L Lander TL9

Imperial Glisten Navy Reconaissance Drone TL15

Indianapolis (TL10) Orbital Interceptor

Indianapolis (TL11) Orbital Interceptor

Indianapolis (TL12) Orbital Interceptor

Indianapolis (TL13) Orbital Interceptor

Indianapolis (TL14) Orbital Interceptor

Indianapolis (TL15) Orbital Interceptor

Indianapolis TL11 Orbital Interceptor

Intercity Bus TL9

Intruder High Speed Recon Aircraft TL8

Javelin Class Light Fighter TL15

Ju-87 Stuka TL6 STOL Attack Aircraft

Kestrel Class Interface Fighter TL13

Kraken Carrier-based Fighter TL8

Lance Class Heavy Fighter TL15

Leviathan class Merchant Cruiser TL15

Light Intruder TL 15 "Fox" Class

Light Intruder TL 15 "Thunder" Class

Light Tanker TL11 "Cow" Class

Lightning Light Civilian Speeder TL15

Lightning VTOL Fighter TL9

Lockheed YF-22 (TL9) Fighter/Interceptor

Lord Adrian Class Light Cruiser TL13

M1A1 Abrams (TL8) Main Battle Tank

M2 Bradley Fighting Vehicle (TL7) Armored Personel Carrier

M997 Combat Walker TL10

Manta STOL Medium Attack Aircraft TL 8

Manta STOL Medium Attack Aircraft TL8

Manzikert class Destroyer TL15

Medium Attack Helicopter TL8

Meson Destroyer

Meteor Grav Tank TL11

Metolius Class Fleet Escort TL13

MIG 21 Fishbed TL7 Interceptor

MIL-24 Hind TL8 Attack Helicopter

Minuteman Armored Truck TL5

Missile Fighter TL13 "Va" Class

Mitchell B-25 TL6 Medium Bomber

Model 27 Amphibious Light Tank TL8

Model 28 Amphibious APC TL8

Model 28B Air Defense Vehicle TL8

Model 31 Scout Car TL8

Modified IDP-9734 class Freighter TL9

Mosquito Class Light Escort TL 15

Mosquito TL6 Medium Bomber

Moth Trainer/Light Attack Aircraft TL7

Motor Home TL8

Motorcycle TL8

MultiPurpose Combat Vessel TL15

Nergal Class Battleship TL15

Nomad Light Range Truck TL8

Northrop YF-23 (TL9) Fighter/Interceptor

Oberlindes Lines Cargo Carrier Type CT TL15

Osprey Class Battleship TL15

Owl Medium Ground Attack Aircraft TL8

Packet TL13

Passenger Coach TL6

Passenger Combine TL6

Passenger Diner TL6

Passenger Sleeper TL6

Patrol Dirigible TL5

Patrol Dirigible TL5

Patrol Submarine TL6 "Gato" Class

Phobos (TL10) Mobile Artillery/Tank Destroyer

Phobos (TL10) Mobile Artillery/Tank Destroyer

Pioneer Grav Carrier TL10

Piranha Class Light Cruiser TL15

Planetary Defense Sled TL 15

Plowhorse Truck TL5

Poni All Terrain Vehicle TL10

Prospector's Track TL10

Quester Scout/Prospector Craft TL15

Raptor Combat Lander TL13

Reconnaissance Drone TL 15 "Lurker" Class

Reliable Light ATV TL13

Revenge Class Battlecruiser TL15

Roc Long Range Bomber TL8

Rocket Interceptor TL6

Rocket Interceptor TL6

Sarissa Fire Support Vehicle TL10

Scorpion Heavy Tank TL8

Sentinel Early Warning Aircraft TL8

Shambalator Class Escort TL 15

Shetland Light ATV TL13

SIE 800 ton Escort TL 15

SIE Behemoth TL15

SIE City of Fredriksport TL15

SIE Donald Stewart TL15

SIE Fiona Stewart TL15

SIE Hydra TL11

SIE Princess Lora TL10

SIE Princess Lora TL15

SIE Princess Margrethe TL15

Silver Star Class Passenger Liner TL15

Small Bulk Freighter TL15

Small Coastal Freighter TL6

Solar Burro TL10

Solar Mule TL15

Sparrow Interface Fighter TL10

Sprinter Cargo ACV TL8

Stinger Class Interface Fighter TL 15

Sun Tzu Class Heavy Cruiser Refit TL 15

Sun Tzu Class Heavy Cruiser TL 15

Swift Light Air Raft TL13

Sword Worlds Ariel class Pinnace TL11

Sword Worlds Majestic Class Heavy Cruiser TL11

Sword Worlds Nymph class Fighter TL11

Sword Worlds Sprite class Lander TL11

System Defence Drone TL 15 "Watcher" Class

T80 (TL8) Main Battle Tank

Tanker TL11 7-11 Series

Tiremese Mule TL11

Triumph Class Cruiser TL13

Tukera Freighter Type AT TL15

Tukera Long Liner Type RT TL15

Type 1107 Destroyer TL 15

Type 1112 Landing Boat TL15

Type A Free Trader TL9

Type A2 Far Trader TL12

Type K Gunboat TL15

Type M Merchant TL15

Type M Subsidized Liner TL9

Type S Scout/Courier

Type S Scout/Courier TL10

Type S Scout/Courier TL11

Type S Scout/Courier TL9

Typhoon Light Attack/Fighter Aircraft TL6

Urban Grav Bus TL10

Vanguard class Orbiter TL7

Wasp Class Heavy Fighter TL13

Whippet Ground Car TL10

Yak All Terrain Vehicle TL10

Yataghan Class Missile Boat TL 15



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2057

Date:     Thu, 10 Jan 91 9:33:31 EST

From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>

Subject:  One Man Band...



Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM> writes:



> Subject: (2050) Automating a starship?



> Here's stumper that one of my MT campaign players just handed me the

> other day.



> We were talking about the campaign and he said (paraphrased) ,"As soon as

> I get some more cash, I'm going to have the ship's computer upgraded so

> that just one person can operate the whole thing."  This stopped me cold.

> This ship currently requires a minimum crew of three: pilot, navigator,

> and engineer.  The Ref. rules say that's the MINIMUM.  There are no

> additional rules for anything like what my player wants to do.  Now,

> I can wing it and allow him to do what he wants, but I'm concerned on

> two points.



> First, what would be the most logical/least-rule-bending way to do what

> he wants?  My initial reaction is have him buy two stationary robots

> (one for engineering and one for nav.) and require a live pilot at

> all times.  My reasoning is that a 'mere' computer could never be smart

> enough (within MT guidelines) to do the jobs, and it would require at

> least some synaptic processing, hence robots.  My robot design skills

> are pretty much non-existant, but I guess this is a good excuse to

> learn how, huh?



Try this on for size.  Put in the new computer (and don't forget that you

need three of them to be safe--Dow Rieder was the one who suggested that we

should allow you to have different models of computer on one ship, fighting

as the most proficient, but control as the least proficient) and calculate

the crew values.  I don't think the MT rules require you to have a navigator,

do they?  A navigator is part of the Bridge crew, and that appears to have

a minimum of one, because you round up fractions when calculating.  

Engineering also rounds up fractions.  So what I would do is calculate the

required crew retaining fractional values with the new computer.  If the total

of bridge and engineering is less than one, and if the character has pilot,

navigation, and engineering skill, I'd be inclined to let in run the ship

single-handedly.  What do you mean by "at all times"?  Are you presently

requiring three shifts worth of pilots?  If modern aircraft can fly on auto-

pilot for extended periods of time, I'd have no problem with allowing a TL9+

starship to operate on autopilot most of the time, with the human there to

override/make suggestions in an emergency.  The controls are all computer

driven anyway.  However, the robot idea isn't a bad one even if you allow a

single character to run the ship.  There will (Murphy's Law) inevitably be

simultaneous crises in engineering and navigation some day....Robots are 

pretty cheap compared to the computer upgrade.





> Second, assuming that I do allow him to succeed, what effect will it

> have on game balance?  I mean, I assume that GDW/DGP put those crew

> minimums in there for a reason.  Will allowing a single person with

> Pilot-1 to fly around the Imperium in a 200 ton Free Trader screw

> things up?  My initial reaction is "No", but I feel like I'm over-

> looking some points.



I can't see that it would be a problem.  There will remain disadvantages. 

There is no chance of doing any damage control during a battle, and if you

get tossed in jail on a high-law planet, no crewmembers around to bail you

out..."Bare is brotherless back".



> What do you folks think?



>         Mark F. Cook



That's what I think.



Rob Dean



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2058

From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>

Subject: Re: Automating a starship

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 91 9:51:30 GMT



Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM> writes:

> 

> We were talking about the campaign and he said (paraphrased) ,"As soon as

> I get some more cash, I'm going to have the ship's computer upgraded so

> that just one person can operate the whole thing."



Has this player been watching Star Trek III recently?  Remind him of what

happens if everything is automated, and the computer gets damaged.



Other possibilities:



. The pilot gets in trouble with Imperial authorities for violating safety

regulations (that minimum of 3 crew could be a legal, not physical,

requirement).



. He can't get his ship loaded, unloaded, or otherwise handled by starport

personnel.  The Navigators' and Engineers' Unions are upset with him for

making their members redundant, and the Starport Workers' Union is helping

them by boycotting his ship.



On the other hand, there is a precedent for this, and it doesn't require

the computer to be upgraded.  It requires the pilot to be upgraded.  One

person can do more than one job, provided that the person is skilled for

all the jobs.  For each additional job, the character's effective skill

is reduced by one.  So, if the pilot wants to navigate as well, he needs

Pilot-2 and Navigation-2; if he does both, he does so at Pilot-1 and

Navigation-1.  If he has Pilot-3, Navigation-3, Engineering-3, and the

ability to run quickly from the engine room to the bridge, then he can

fly the ship by himself, with all three skills effectively at level 1.



- - -- 

 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott



 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs

 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2059

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 91 10:47:30 EST

From: True Friends Change Your Life <baranski@mcdonl.enet.dec.COM>

Subject: Automating a Starship



First off, I believe that there are things that a human can do that robots just

can't do.  I would think that on any ship, minimum I would want a pilot and an

engineer.  What is the pliot going to do when the engineering robot comes up

against something it can't handle in a tight situation? go back and eyeball the

situation?  you may not have the leasure to do that in some situations.



automating a gunner, or navigator would be more possible, but again, I don't

think that any but the most expensive robot could act as anything more then

skill level 1 or 0.  They don't have the same kind of intuition or aquisition

of experience.  I know that there are pubilcations out there which disagree

with me, but that's my stance.



I think of the robots in Silent Running.  They were programmed for particular

basic tasks, but they often came up against things that they couldn't handle,

and had to be programmed or instructed.



You would have more success using robots to suplement existing personel on a

larger ship, having an engineer and 2 robots instead of 2 engineer.  Say you

have a gunner on a ship with multiple turrets mostly run by 'robots'; the

gunner could program new tactics into the robots as he comes up with them from

his experience, like what to do when two targets scissor, etc...



There's now way in hell, I'd want to be on a ship run by a pilot 1 and robots.

at the very least, the pilot *has* to have all the skills needed to run the

ship, like Eng, Nav, even if the ship is automated.  What will you do if the

jump drive won't work, and the robot can't figure it out?  Kick it?  With some

skill, at least you can do *something*!



It might be possible to get along without a Navigator if the pilot has

navigation skill, but it will take him longer to do the work required then it

would for two people, and that might be critical in some situations.



Jim Baranski



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2060

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 91 12:58:44 -0600

From: bonnevil@acc.stolaf.edu

Subject: Re:  Automating a starship





In the campaigns that I run, I usually allow players to automate their

ships using robots if they wish.  I feel that most positions on a ship

can be handled by a high tech robot -- it preserves the "far future"

feel of the game.  However, this doesn't mean that this is as good as

having a real live sophont in the position, especially in jobs which

require creative and innovative thought.



For instance, a player may put a pilot bot into their ship.  This would

be good in a nobles unstreamlined staryacht, perhaps, since it never

reenters or fights in combat (hopefully), but could be a disaster if

a dangerous situation arises.  Gunnery robots would be terrific in a

merchant -- why pay for gunners you never use, especially in exposed 

turrets, when you can use their staterooms for paying passengers.   In

an emergency, a robot gunner could hold its own, perhaps.  But on a 

battleship, highly trained gunners would be preferable.



Furthermore, robots are expensive to purchase and maintain.  They can

break down at inopportune moments -- the EMP that knocked out your 

jump drive also can get your engineering robot.  Now how do you fix

everything?  Of course, having one engineer robot and several sophonts

can be handy in a situation where you don't want to send something

alive into danger -- corrosive gas or hard radiation, perhaps.  If 

whatever goes in will die, why not send an automaton?  Robots can be

replaced; players hate to roll up new characters.



Medical robots are great -- but like Larry Niven says in his Known

Space books, it's almost frightening how many things could go wrong

with a damaged autodoc.  This means that you'd better make sure you

buy a medical robot from a reputable dealer, and it better be _very_

sturdy!



So go ahead and build some robots!  Just remember, robots have their

limitations, just like living crew, and have some fun.



- - --Steve



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2061

Date:     Thu, 10 Jan 91 14:35:44 EST

From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>

Subject:  Military Campaign



Well, I got two people who expressed an interest in a PBEM Traveller 

military campaign.  I think I could handle up to about five.  Any other

volunteers?



Rob Dean





------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2062

Date:     Thu, 10 Jan 91 14:37:30 EST

From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>

Subject:  Thinking Ahead



I'd be interested in meeting any of you, if circumstances permit.  How many

people are planning on attending either Origins in Blatimore this summer,

or the World Science Fiction Convention in Chicago over Labor Day?  If we

knew it would be worthwhile now, we might get a meeting room set aside for

either of those cons.



Rob Dean





------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2063

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 91 14:49:30 -0500

From: f3w@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mark Gellis)

Subject: Automated Ships





You have crews because you need a certain amount of labor to run/maintain

things.  Robots can easily manage things at the nominal levels (most new

airliners today--late Tech 7?--can pretty much fly and land themselves; the

human crews, if they wanted, could let the jets fly themselves and stay on

only as an emergency redundant system; as for repairs, a CD rom disc 

probably has enough room for "The 10,001 Things Most Likely to Go Wrong

on Your Spacecraft, and How to Fix Them" files, so your maintenance crews

are probably not a problem, either).  This is the easiest thing to do;

if your player wants a fully automated spacecraft, a robotic brain would

cost five times (and double mass) for what regular controls cost (and

double this cost if you are tearing out existing controls instead of

simply building a new ship--this covers the additional labor costs, etc.)

At least, that is how I have it set up.  Mind you, this does not include

any additional costs for special maintenance facilities that you might

want on an automated ship (or any ship) making very long voyages.



I have a feeling that the reason why the rules are set up include the

following:



     1) People have not thought through the potential for robotics,

        especially for jobs that are mostly tedium, but sometimes require

        real creative problem-solving (ship crews, etc.)



     2) If you can have everything done by robots, it limits what player

        characters can do.  It's hard to start off an adventure by shipping

        out on a free trader with a motley crew if the credit-strapped

        captain knows that robots will work harder and longer and complain

        less.  (They will cost more at first, but any good businessman

        with the initial credit for a spacecraft could get the additional

        5% he would need to buy an entire robotic crew, knowing in the 

        long run it would be far more profitable--you don't have to pay

        robots once you own them.)  The easy out is to assume that there

        is a limit to how good one can build a portable mechanical brain;

        if there are obvious limits, then robots can only be so smart,

        and certain jobs will always remain the territory of humans.



        (I have a feeling that our real future with robots will end up

        with different classes being built--most robots will be about as

        intelligent as mice, or not even that smart, so they can handle

        jobs that are dangerous or tedious, but will have the basic

        creative problem-solving abilities that will let them deal with

        unusual situations pretty well--an industrial accident that

        doesn't kill anyone because all the workers are robots is a

        good thing, but if the robots are too stupid to get out of the

        burning factory, and you lose 500 million credits worth of 

        robots, it is a very bad thing.  Other robots may be true AIs,

        as smart as we are, and they will be given rights, etc.  The

        other option, for a Traveller-like civilization, one that has

        had time to go through the growing pains of robotic influences

        on society, might be to outlaw the creation of robots that can

        totally replace humans, as this is a technology that creates

        some pretty serious strains on society.  By the time of

        Traveller, people would have developed robots that are very

        smart, smarter than people even, if it is possible to do it,

        and we would have learned what having a new race of sophont

        beings does to our society.  We might also end up as a race

        of "gods"--human beings would control enormous armies of

        robots, which can be programmed for loyalty no matter how

        smart they are (and "police" robots can take care of any

        robots with bad programming) who would do all the things

        that people do now.  Or the robots will just kill us off

        as part of the "natural evolution from carbon-water life

        to silicon life.")





Enjoy.





------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2064

From: woodsb@ecn.purdue.edu (Brent L. Woods)

Subject: Re: (2050) Automating a starship?

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 91 6:23:09 EST





 In message 2050, markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com (Mark F. Cook) writes:

 >

 >Here's stumper that one of my MT campaign players just handed me the

 >other day.

 >

 >We were talking about the campaign and he said (paraphrased) ,"As soon

 >as I get some more cash, I'm going to have the ship's computer

 >upgraded so that just one person can operate the whole thing."  This

 >stopped me cold.  This ship currently requires a minimum crew of

 >three: pilot, navigator, and engineer.  The Ref. rules say that's the

 >MINIMUM.  There are no additional rules for anything like what my

 >player wants to do.  Now, I can wing it and allow him to do what he

 >wants, but I'm concerned on two points.



     Mark, tell me something.  Just how is it that you accidentally

stumble over the gimmick that I was planning to use in the upcoming

adventure that I'll be running?  No, never mind, it's not that

important...spooky, though.  ;-)



 >First, what would be the most logical/least-rule-bending way to do

 >what he wants?  My initial reaction is have him buy two stationary

 >robots (one for engineering and one for nav.) and require a live pilot

 >at all times.



     Good instincts.  Since I was planning to use this little tidbit,

I've done a lot of thinking about the subject.  Actually, I'm doing it

a little bit different--in my upcoming session, the idea is to have a

ship that requires *no* organo-sentient (I like this word :-) ) crew at

all.  This includes a ship that has no provision for life support (hey,

it's a *prototype*, okay? :-) ).  I don't have to tell you why various

factions in the traveller universe would find this little gem desirable,

do I?  No, I didn't think so.  ;-)



 >My reasoning is that a 'mere' computer could never be smart enough

 >(within MT guidelines) to do the jobs,



     Define "mere."  I'm doing it by mixing some technologies--robot

brains and standard computers.  High tech level, of course, but that's

a gimmie.  However, the whole point (at least, in my case) is that it's

*not* off-the-shelf equipment--experimental, and it doesn't work all too

well yet (and will continue so, at least for another tech level).

However, your players and their characters don't necessarily know this--

situation fodder.  Heck, there are lots of things in the real world like

this--it works, sort of, but in a not-especially-practical way; look at

OS/2.  ;-)



 >and it would require at least some synaptic processing, hence robots.



     Bingo.  Give the man a cheroot.  The idea I came up with was

installing a computer *much* larger than the ship needs (say, a Model

5 or 6 on a 200 ton Far Trader hull), and adding a snynaptic processing

module to it, thus making it a robot brain, of a sort.  All the control

lines go into it, and, where it needs independent manipulators, small

maintenance drones are linked to it in a master/slave relationship.

This all works fairly well, since we haven't wandered too far afield

from the published rules.  What I've just done is make a big starship-

shaped robot.  A little extrapolation is needed, but that's all.



     For your purposes, you can go a little simpler--a big computer,

with add-on synaptics and only a rudimentary decision-making

capability (since you expect to have at least one organo-sentient

present at all times).



     Remember one thing about this, though.  Synaptic processors have

to be *taught*.  At the very beginning, your fancy new ship's brain

will be little more than a standard computer with a lot of potential.

It will make mistakes if the crew lets it have too much initiative.

It also runs the risk of developing a personality--there's a lot of

unused potential there.  I'm not necessarily saying that it'll be

truly sentient, but it may act like it.  As I recall, there's a

planetful of sentient robots (the Sabmiqys--Challenge 28, page 31, and

the article is written by Joe Fugate) at TL17.  So our little efforts,

built at more normal (and more available) Imperial tech levels, can

be considered non-sentient, even if they exhibit wilful and irrational

behavior.  :-)  After all, that's not necessarily an attribute of

sentience; my car acts that way all the time, and *it's* not sentient.

I think.  ;-)



 >My robot design skills are pretty much non-existant, but I guess this

 >is a good excuse to learn how, huh?



     Yup.  It's not that difficult.  About like designing vehicles.



 >Second, assuming that I do allow him to succeed, what effect will it

 >have on game balance?  I mean, I assume that GDW/DGP put those crew

 >minimums in there for a reason.  Will allowing a single person with

 >Pilot-1 to fly around the Imperium in a 200 ton Free Trader screw

 >things up?  My initial reaction is "No", but I feel like I'm over-

 >looking some points.



     My considered opinion (considered for several weeks, in fact) is

that it won't have much effect on game balance.  Just limit it.  For

instance, if a very oversized computer is needed as the base platform,

this rules out doing this to really large ships, since they need

computers that big just to operate--there won't be enough spare

capacity available.  Also, it's not a mature technology yet--there're

bound to be some teething problems.  Not to mention having to deal

with training the synaptic processor.



     Actually, now that I think about it, there's no need to get that

elaborate.  Your PCs can just buy a couple of robots with the

appropriate skills in software.  The robot would count as a crewember,

if not especially skilled or disposed to intiative.  There would still

have to be a human in charge.



     Also, I just thought of something else.  Consider attitudes toward

robots.  Vilani, especially, since they're a touch technophobic.  There

has been some anti-robot agitation out Solomani Rim way, too.



 >What do you folks think?



     Should they be allowed to have an (even partially) automated ship?

Sure.  Why not?  Provided, of course, that they're prepared to deal

with (and endure) all the possible negative aspects of the situation.

They may decide that it's not worth the expense and effort.  Or, it may

save their tails in a tight spot.  "You never can tell."  ;-)





- - --

     Brent



INTERNET:  woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu

USNAIL:  2818 S. Sunrise Dr.  /  New Palestine, IN  46163

PHONE:  +1 (317) 861-4844 (voice)





------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2065

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 91 23:54:57 -0800

From: George William Herbert <gwh@soda.Berkeley.EDU>

Subject: Re: Automated Vehicles





I have a character that through long convoluted devious channels (treachery)

earned herself a custom built starship.  She wanted something good enough

to withstand any normal-ship (escorts and down) attack, and extreme endurance

(she wanted to jump out into deep space and stay there for a while for personal

survival reasons...).  It also had to be single-crew operable...



The solution was a heavily redundant 600 ton 'Special Lab Ship' [neat cover name

with addl. background that she's a scientist helping...].  It had 3 model

6/fib computers (note the intrinsic redundancy in each system...) and ECP

and such...and each of the main computers was paired with a Best-At-TL15

robot brain, with Pilot, Nav, Engineering, etc. out the ears.  My justification

was that the robots were going to be smart enough to handle the piloting tasks,

and each robot had enough talent to handle it all alone...



But this has it's problems.  First, if something breaks that the maintenance bot

can't replace, you've only got one person to help with it.  If the robots

encounter a totally out-of-ordinary situation, at TL15 they're not really

creative enough to solve it well.  Etc.  One of the more lethal near-accidents

(lesson 1- if you run for the hills, stay there...) occured when a biological

agent that ate computer components got loose on another PC ship... had the GM

been particularly evil, and my char. unlucky, she would have been sitting dead

in space with an unmanagable pile of junk.  



Summarizing:

Use Robots tied to computers as replacement for crew.  It makes some sense in

most situations.

Be prepared to have difficulty handling out-of-the-ordinary situations if you 

do.  Robots aren't really bright at TL15.



- - -george william herbert

gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2066

From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>

Subject: Practical Jokes in Traveller

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 91 9:55:47 GMT



d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se writes:

> 

>   I can see it: Kids running around waving plastic FGMP-15's and playing Zho's

> and Marines (or Lucan and Dulinor:)



This reminds me of an incident I arranged a long time ago while I was referee.

The PC's ship was boarded by some people wearing impressive uniforms, and

carrying impressive ID cards and FGMP's.  The leader claimed to be from the

local navy, and was checking their ship over to make sure it complied with

safety regulations.  The boarders then proceeded to do their checks, failing

the ship on a whole lot of counts such as the wrong sort of paint in the

cargo hold, a minor scratch in the paintwork of a fuel line, and the ship's

hull being made of the wrong alloy.  (It wasn't; at least, the PC's didn't

know it was, nor did the boarders, and nor did the referee.)  After the

safety inspectors had succeeded in annoying the PC's, one of the PC's started

to seem to be leading towards threatening remarks, at which point the leading

inspector warned the PC's not to try anything, there was a nuon gun on the

planet targetted on this ship.  ("What's a nuon gun?"  "Like a meson gun,

but better.")



The leading boarder eventually revealed that there was nothing wrong with

the ship, as far as he knew.  Mind you, he didn't know a lot, because the

PC's were the victim of a local holovision practical joke show (a bit like

Candid Camera).  The FGMP's were models made from kits, with the cameras

fitted inside them.  There was indeed no such thing as a nuon gun.  And by

way of compensation, the PC's were given a free lunch by the holonet company.



Actually, it was quite a good lunch.





- - -- 

 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott



 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs

 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2067

Date:         Fri, 11 Jan 91 11:00:24 GMT

From: Arthur Green <AJGREEN%IRLEARN@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>

Subject:      Single-crew ships (big ones that is)



Hmmm .... putting robots in the crew instead of humans. OK, here's a

situation: Captain Jamison replaces his crew and all those freeloading

working passage type with robots and sets off down the Spinward Main

in splendid isolation. He then gets a nasty case of Enopian toe flu (or

gets jump sickness if you prefer). His trusty robot medic doesn't know

about Enopian toe flu ... RIP Captain Jamison. Let's hope this happens

before his appearance in Twilight's Peak :-) The point of all this

waffle is that robots as I understand they work at Imperial tech levels

aren't flexible enough to trust on their own.  Give me a human crew any

day.



 - Arthur Green

   University College Dublin Computing Services -- AJGREEN@IRLEARN.BITNET

                                                   AJGREEN@IRLEARN.UCD.IE

   "Time dilation is relativity's way of telling you to slow down"



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2068

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 91 10:56:33 EST

From: True Friends Change Your Life  11-Jan-1991 1045 <baranski@meridn.enet.dec.COM>

Subject: automation



Someone suggested that today's airplanes can pretty much fly themselves.  That

may be so, but can they land and take off by themselves?  And would you want to

fly on an automated plane?  Not me!



No, *some* crew must be aboard to take care of emergencies.  I expect traveller

starships will be very similiar.



The other question I've had for a long time is that there seems to be an

assumption in general that on traveller ships that there is always someone on

watch 24 hours a day on the bridge and engineering.  Yet the crew on board is

no where near anything what would be required?



Are 24 hour watches really required?  I'd have a hard time sleeping, knowing

that their is nobody at the wheel, though.  I figure that at the least,

*someone* of even the most minimal skill has to be on the bridge at all times,

and they summon someone if anything anything bad or unfamiliar happens.  On the

other hand, on scouts, perhaps they simply set all the computer alarms, and

take a snooze, and possibly get a hell of a wake up!



Jim Baranski



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2069

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 91 12:28 EDT

From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu

Subject: Robots as crewmembers





I've only recently begun running parties with robots in the crew; my

first exposure has been very good. The party I'm running (and about which

you read here occasionally in the fiction pieces drawn from the game) has

one robot at the moment, a medical/steward 'bot with a fair degree of skill.

This frees up having to have a party member be a Medical type, either for

shootemup safety or meeting SPA/ASTC regs for ship crews> And then there

was Hector, but, well, you'll find out more about him in upcoming stories.|->



As for utterly automated ships, this gives rise to all sorts of fascinating

scenaria, most of which I think would work better in a game like Space Opera

than in MT, but that's a personal bias.....



"What about that Denoba-class over there in the back?"

"Oh! Uh, well, uh, um, I *guess* it's for sale, but frankly I don't think

you gentlebeings would be very interested in it...."

"Not interested?! The Denoba's one of the best rimrunners ever to upship!

Why the hell wouldn't we be interested?"

"Er, yes, the Denoba as a CLASS are excellent craft, and that one back there

would fetch a high price, assuming...."

"Assuming WHAT?"

"Assuming that the people who bought it could average more than three hops 

before they got killed."

"HUH?"

"Yeah, see, that's the problem. The computer's gotten kind of antisocial;

it keeps spacing its crews. We can't get to it to disconnect it, either.

You see the problem?"

"Indeed I do. <chuckle> Fortunately I have a robopsychologist with me...."



|->



metlay



------------------------------



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Subject: TML Bundle #167: Table of Contents



-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------

2070  12-Jan-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha We are the robots, di da do di! << I didn't r

2071  13-Jan-91 bonnevil@acc.stol Re: (2068) automation << >Someone suggested t

2072  12-Jan-91 Rob Miracle       FGMPs << >Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.

2073  14-Jan-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: Robots as crewmembers << METLAY@vms.cis.p

2074  00-Jan-00 Alan Huscroft     Starship crews & Robots << If I recall correc

2075  15-Jan-91 Mark F. Cook      Black Globes redux << I realize that we haven

2076  15-Jan-91 Mark F. Cook      Black Globes: another interesting reference..



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2070

From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se

Subject: We are the robots, di da do di!

Date: Sat, 12 Jan 91 9:17:22 MET



  I didn't read the TML during the last few days, Instead I was at home writing

hard on Rebel Guard and a little on a writeup of some robots that have appeared

in my campaign. Someone mentioned once that robots should be useful so I 

recomputed them for several TL's to make it easier for the referee.

  I saw Mark F Cooks letter about automating starships before I left, and I

remember thinking that it would be nice if I could get that robot paper finished

while the topic was hot. "Hot" proved to be an understatement:)



  I agree that I am a member of the pro-robotic faction on the TML, but even I

would tend to think that a ship with only one crewmember and the rest of them

robots are to take chances. Why do scout and belters have so high survival 

numbers? Because they are alone in their ships, thats why. And a big, highly

automated ship with just one crewmember could be compared to a simple scout

ship that one person could handle alone *unless mishaps occured*.



  Then there is the legal aspect. Refusing to assist a ship that screams out

SOS and GK on all channels is quite certainly a high justice crime just below

treason and importing bruisers. Blaming the incident on the robots, "They 

didn't wake me, your Honor. The medibot thought that I needed to sleep." isn't

going to land anyone anywhere else than on Exile/Usani.



  As additions to a crew, however, they are quite useful, as long as someone has

at least one level of appropriate skill so that the robot can be supervised now

and then.



  Well, here's the shipboard duty bots from the file Robots.txt.utx. If you are 

sceptical to robots aboard ships you can always treat the descriptions as pure 

marketing hype for unwary players to get suckered by (except in the MasterMek 

XT-3 case of course:) 



19 Robots for duty aboard ships.



   The following robots have all appeared over the years in my campaign. The 

only robot that has stayed on for more than two years (gametime) is a Naasirka

(more or less)MasterMek XT3 that goes by the name "Marvin" (Don't blame me!:).

   All the robots has been upgraded for MegaTraveller by taking volume for 

*all* components into account and recomputing cost and weight for the chassi 

according to the armour multiplier. Appendages were treated as having a volume 

equal to twice their weight that only can be used for devices and not for 

brain, fuel, powerplant or propulsion.

   The speed of robots using legs, whennls or tracks was somewhat tricky to 

compute. If the formula from megatraveller is used, most of them got speeds in 

the range of 500 to 1000kph not counting streamlining. When I looked at the two

robots in 'Vilani & Vargr', however, I found that the engine output was divided

by around 28 before it was used in the formula, so I did the same.

   I used the standard thrust/speed table for robots using grav locomotion.

   I'm not sure if robots should be covered by the 20% price reduction for mass

produced vehicles, so I've included both figures. I think that it should 

because it would give players some impetus to buy a standard item instead of 

ordering a custom design job.

   Damagepoints for robots have been computed according to the referees screen 

(vol in liters/15 for inop and /6 for dest.) Damagepoints for powerplant and 

locomotion was computed based on their fraction of the robots weight.

   Vilani manufacured robots, ie Naasirka and Makhidkarun, are easy to get in 

half-custom configurations with regards to the application programs. When 

"Skill-L(S)" is indicated this means that the robot can be delivered with any 

skill or skills that can be fit into the constraints imposed by the robots Int 

and Edu and available storage space. "L" means max sum of extra skillevels and 

"S" means maximum extra storage available.

   All application programs are also available in exterior storage 

(holocrystals usually) for five times the normal cost of a program of that 

level.



CONTENTS:



  LSP 213B Medibot TL13                   LSP 213C Medibot TL13

  LSP 214B Medibot TL14                   LSP 214C Medibot TL14

  LSP 215B Medibot TL15                   LSP 215C Medibot TL15



  Makhidkarun RP120 Robotic Pilot TL12    Makhidkarun RP130 Robotic Pilot TL13

  Makhidkarun RP140 Robotic Pilot TL14    Makhidkarun RP150 Robotic Pilot TL15



  MoMec MarksmanI Robotic Gunner TL10     MoMec MarksmanII Robotic Gunner TL11

  MoMec MarksmanIII Robotic Gunner TL12   MoMec MarksmanIV Robotic Gunner TL13

  MoMec MarksmanV Robotic Gunner TL14     MoMec MarksmanVI Robotic Gunner TL15



  [Various] MasterMek XT-1 Mekbot TL13    [Various] MasterMek XT-2 Mekbot TL14

  [Various] MasterMek XT-3 Mekbot TL15







LING STANDARD PRODUCTS 200-SERIES MEDIBOTS

   The 200-series medibots from LSP is used by several mercenary organisations 

as well as on a multitude of ships. All models have Medic-4 and Rescue-4. The 

medic skill is usually tuned to 'Imperial Standard Human' but serves at the 

same level for all the three large brances of Humaniti and at one level lower 

for most minor human races (Darrians, Answerin, Dynchia, and Geonee but not 

Floriani) and for Vargr.

   TL15 models also having Xenomed-4 for one of the following races (buyers 

choise): Aslan, Droyne, Hiver, K'kree, Ael Yael, Bwaps, Chirpers, Prt', Vegans 

or Virushi. Data for other minor races might be available locally.

   The 200-series medibots use fuelcells and are thus dependent on exterior 

oxygen. Because of this, they are of similar shape and size to humans, to 

enable them to use vaccsuits and normal medikits if they have to work in 

situations where oxygen isn't available. The lower pair of arms fold in along 

the torso to make the robot fit into a normal vaccsuit.

   The C models are fitted with enough synaptic memory units to be able to 

reach education A after some years of operation.





LSP 213B Medibot TL13



RobotID: LSP 213B Medibot, TL13, Cr343,000/274,000, UPP=XFx75x (X=25)

Hull:    6/17, Size=100 liters, Config=Contour, Armour=6B, Weight=222 kg

Power:   1.5/3, FuelCell=1x60kW, Duration=3.4 days

Loco:    3/6, Legs=2, Road=40kph, OffRoad=16kph

Commo:   Voder, Interfaces=Power, Brain, Program

Sensors: BasicSensorPkg (2 visual, 2 audio, 1 olfactory), TouchSensor with

         ExtraSensitivity

Off:     None

Def:     None

Brain:   CPU=26 linear, 12 parallel, 3 synaptic, Storage=50 standard,

         FundLogic=HighAutonomus, FundCmd=FullCmd, Software=Medic-4, Rescue-4,

         VaccSuit-4, EmotionSimulation

Append:  LightArmx4, RotatingHead=15%, Devices=Medikit

Other:   Fuel=20.5 liters, ObjSize=Small, EMLevel=Faint.





LSP 213C Medibot TL13



RobotID: LSP 213C Medibot, TL13, Cr466,000/373,000, UPP=XFx7Yx (X=25, Y=5(10))

Hull:    6/17, Size=100 liters, Config=Contour, Armour=6B, Weight=221 kg

Power:   1.5/3, FuelCell=1x60kW, Duration=3.8 days

Loco:    3/6, Legs=2, Road=40kph, OffRoad=16kph

Commo:   Voder, Interfaces=Power, Brain, Program

Sensors: BasicSensorPkg (2 visual, 2 audio, 1 olfactory), TouchSensor with

         ExtraSensitivity

Off:     None

Def:     None

Brain:   CPU=26 linear, 12 parallel, 3 synaptic, Storage=45 standard, 5 synap,

         FundLogic=HighAutonomus, FundCmd=FullCmd, Software=Medic-4, Rescue-4,

         VaccSuit-4, EmotionSimulation

Append:  LightArmx4, RotatingHead=15%, Devices=Medikit

Other:   Fuel=22.5 liters, ObjSize=Small, EMLevel=Faint.





LSP 214B Medibot TL14



RobotID: LSP 214B Medibot, TL14, Cr343,000/274,000, UPP=XFx85x (X=25)

Hull:    6/17, Size=100 liters, Config=Contour, Armour=6B, Weight=222 kg

Power:   1.5/3, FuelCell=1x60kW, Duration=3.4 days

Loco:    3/6, Legs=2, Road=45kph, OffRoad=18kph

Commo:   Voder, Interfaces=Power, Brain, Program

Sensors: BasicSensorPkg (2 visual, 2 audio, 1 olfactory), TouchSensor with

         ExtraSensitivity

Off:     None

Def:     None

Brain:   CPU=26 linear, 12 parallel, 3 synaptic, Storage=50 standard

         FundLogic=HighAutonomus, FundCmd=FullCmd, Software=Medic-4, Rescue-4,

         VaccSuit-4, EmotionSimulation

Append:  LightArmx4, RotatingHead=15%, Devices=Medikit

Other:   Fuel=20.5 liters, ObjSize=Small, EMLevel=Faint.





LSP 214C Medibot TL14



RobotID: LSP 214C Medibot, TL14, Cr466,000/373,000, UPP=XFx8Yx (X=25, Y=5(10))

Hull:    6/17, Size=100 liters, Config=Contour, Armour=6B, Weight=222 kg

Power:   1.5/3, FuelCell=1x60kW, Duration=3.8 days

Loco:    3/6, Legs=2, Road=45kph, OffRoad=18kph

Commo:   Voder, Interfaces=Power, Brain, Program

Sensors: BasicSensorPkg (2 visual, 2 audio, 1 olfactory), TouchSensor with

         ExtraSensitivity

Off:     None

Def:     None

Brain:   CPU=26 linear, 12 parallel, 3 synaptic, Storage=45 standard, 5 synap,

         FundLogic=HighAutonomus, FundCmd=FullCmd, Software=Medic-4, Rescue-4,

         VaccSuit-4, EmotionSimulation

Append:  LightArmx4, RotatingHead=15%, Devices=Medikit

Other:   Fuel=22.5 liters, ObjSize=Small, EMLevel=Faint.





LSP 215B Medibot TL15



RobotID: LSP 215B Medibot, TL15, Cr352,000/282,000, UPP=XFx96x (X=25)

Hull:    6/17, Size=100 liters, Config=Contour, Armour=6B, Weight=191 kg

Power:   0.5/1, FuelCell=1x60kW, Duration=5.9 days

Loco:    3/6, Legs=2, Road=55kph, OffRoad=22kph

Commo:   Radio=Continental, Voder, Interfaces=Power, Brain, Program

Sensors: BasicSensorPkg (2 visual, 2 audio, 1 olfactory), TouchSensor with

         ExtraSensitivity, Spotlightx2

Off:     None

Def:     None

Brain:   CPU=28 linear, 12 parallel, 3 synaptic, Storage=64 standard

         FundLogic=HighAutonomus, FundCmd=FullCmd, Software=Medic-4, Rescue-4,

         XenoMed-4, VaccSuit-2, Commo-1, EmotionSimulation

Append:  LightArmx4, RotatingHead=10%, Devices=Medikit

Other:   Fuel=21.1 liters, ObjSize=Small, EMLevel=Faint.





LSP 215C Medibot TL15



RobotID: LSP 215C Medibot, TL15, Cr451,000/361,000, UPP=XFx9Yx (X=25, Y=6(10))

Hull:    6/17, Size=100 liters, Config=Contour, Armour=6B, Weight=190 kg

Power:   0.5/1, FuelCell=1x60kW, Duration=6.3 days

Loco:    3/6, Legs=2, Road=55kph, OffRoad=22kph

Commo:   Radio=Continental, Voder, Interfaces=Power, Brain, Program

Sensors: BasicSensorPkg (2 visual, 2 audio, 1 olfactory), TouchSensor with

         ExtraSensitivity, Spotlightx2

Off:     None

Def:     None

Brain:   CPU=28 linear, 12 parallel, 3 synaptic, Storage=60 standard, 4 synap,

         FundLogic=HighAutonomus, FundCmd=FullCmd, Software=Medic-4, Rescue-4,

         XenoMed-4, VaccSuit-2, Commo-1, EmotionSimulation

Append:  LightArmx4, RotatingHead=10%, Devices=Medikit

Other:   Fuel=22.7 liters, ObjSize=Small, EMLevel=Faint.







MAKHIDKARUN RP-SERIES ROBOTIC PILOTS

   Makhidkarun RP-series robotic pilots are a good example of how Makhidkarun 

robotics are different from for example the equivalent Naasirka models. It is 

built to handle a specific task and thats what it does. The extra capability 

that is made available because of the relatively high intelligence needed 

(after all, who would want a dumbot to pilot the ships-boat?) is used to 

accomodate two or more seconday skills that the buyer can choose according to 

his own purposes.

   The RP-series are shaped like a rectangular box, fifteen centimeters thick 

times thirty wide times one meter high. They are made to be mounted on the 

back of the pilots chair and hooked up to the ships computer, power and 

sensors (they lack own powerplant and propulsion). On top of the box is a very 

light arm that holds the visual and audio sensor. The robot is not dependent 

on those for normal operation. The arm can be used for lifting and grasping 

but this is limited to very light loads (less than 5kg)

   The following secondary programs are generally available, space and price 

are per level, maximum level of any skill for robots is 4:



Program           Space   Price       Program           Space   Price

Communications      2      400        SensorOps           2      500

FleetTactics        8      800        Ship'sBoat          2      400

GravVehicle         2      400        ShipTactics         8      800

Language            5      600        Survey              4      600

Navigator           4      500        [Gunnery]           2      400

Prospecting         4      500        [Weapon]*           2      300



   Additional programs can be found in Traveller Book8: Robots. *) Weapon aims 

at a specific weapon skill. It is quite common to let the robot have one level 

of skill in snub pistol or some similar small zero-gee weapon and employ it as 

the last line of defence against boarding and hijackers.



   The main disadvantage with this series of robots is that they are fixed in 

place. Even if they detect some kind of malfunction they can't do anything 

about it. Also, if the power disappears because of battle damage or 

malfunction, they are totally disabled.



   There is also a similar line of robots serving as gunners or as small craft 

pilots. They are usually delivered with one form of gunnery as main skill and 

either fleet or ship tactics as secondary. Any extra space or Int+Edu is then 

filled by FAGunnery to enable the batteries to be used for surface bombardment.





Makhidkarun RP120 Robotic Pilot TL12



RobotID: Makhidkarun RP120 Robotic Pilot, TL12, Cr199,000/160,000, UPP=25x55x

Hull:    3/8, Size=50 liters, Config=Box, Armour=1B, Weight=18 kg

Power:   None

Loco:    None

Commo:   Voder, Interfaces=Power, Brain, Program

Sensors: VisualSensor, AudioSensor

Off:     None

Def:     None

Brain:   CPU=25 linear, 10 parallel, 1 synaptic, Storage=54 standard

         FundLogic=LowAutonomus, FundCmd=FullCmd, Software=Pilot-4, Skill-4(16)

         Skill-2(8), EmotionSimulation

Append:  VeryLightArm

Other:   WasteSpace=6.9 liters, ObjSize=Small, EMLevel=None.





Makhidkarun RP130 Robotic Pilot TL13



RobotID: Makhidkarun RP130 Robotic Pilot, TL13, Cr201,000/161,000, UPP=25x65x

Hull:    3/8, Size=50 liters, Config=Box, Armour=1B, Weight=18 kg

Power:   None

Loco:    None

Commo:   Voder, Interfaces=Power, Brain, Program

Sensors: VisualSensor, AudioSensor

Off:     None

Def:     None

Brain:   CPU=25 linear, 10 parallel, 1 synaptic, Storage=58 standard

         FundLogic=LowAutonomus, FundCmd=FullCmd, Software=Pilot-4, Skill-4(16),

         Skill-3(12), EmotionSimulation

Append:  VeryLightArm

Other:   WasteSpace=4.9 liters, ObjSize=Small, EMLevel=None.





Makhidkarun RP140 Robotic Pilot TL14



RobotID: Makhidkarun RP140 Robotic Pilot, TL14, Cr204,000/163,000, UPP=25x76x

Hull:    3/8, Size=50 liters, Config=Box, Armour=1B, Weight=18 kg

Power:   None

Loco:    None

Commo:   Voder, Interfaces=Power, Brain, Program

Sensors: VisualSensor, AudioSensor

Off:     None

Def:     None

Brain:   CPU=25 linear, 10 parallel, 1 synaptic, Storage=66 standard

         FundLogic=LowAutonomus, FundCmd=FullCmd, Software=Pilot-4, Skill-4(16)

         Skill-4(16), Skill-1(4) EmotionSimulation

Append:  VeryLightArm

Other:   WasteSpace=0.9 liters, ObjSize=Small, EMLevel=None.





Makhidkarun RP150 Robotic Pilot TL15



RobotID: Makhidkarun RP150 Robotic Pilot, TL15, Cr205,000/164,000, UPP=25x86x

Hull:    3/8, Size=50 liters, Config=Box, Armour=1B, Weight=18 kg

Power:   None

Loco:    None

Commo:   Voder, Interfaces=Power, Brain, Program

Sensors: VisualSensor, AudioSensor

Off:     None

Def:     None

Brain:   CPU=25 linear, 10 parallel, 1 synaptic, Storage=74 standard

         FundLogic=LowAutonomus, FundCmd=FullCmd, Software=Pilot-4, Skill-4(16)

         Skill-4(16), Skill-4(16), Skill-2(4), EmotionSimulation

Append:  VeryLightArm

Other:   WasteSpace=0.9 liters, ObjSize=Small, EMLevel=None.







MORA MECATRONICS MARKSMAN-SERIES ROBOTIC GUNNERS

   Although designed on Mora, the Mora Mecatronics robots are manufactured and 

sold on many worlds with many techlevels along the Spinward Main. The most 

popular of their robots are the Marksman series gunners. While they are can't 

be described as intelligent even by friendly accounts, the are easy to install.

Just show the robot to the gunnery position and it will take over from there. 

They are also much cheaper than many competeting models.

   Normally, the robots will get their instructions directly from the ships 

computer. A program that lets the pilot indicate the target on whatever HUD or 

viewscreen that available on the bridge and pass this on to the robots are 

included in the standard package. The robots are programmed to hook themselves

up to ships power and the main computer databus automatically.

   Mora Mecatronics robots of the local TL are available on world on 3+. DM -1 

per 3 parsecs from Mora. -4 if off the Main.





Mora Mecatronics MarksmanI Robotic Gunner TL10



RobotID: MoMec MarksmanI Robotic Gunner, TL10, Cr33,000/26,000, UPP=F6x01x

Hull:    6/17, Size=100 liters, Config=Contour, Armour=1B, Weight=230 kg

Power:   3/4, FuelCell=1x40kW, Duration=8.8 days

Loco:    2/3, Legs=2, Road=20kph, OffRoad=8kph

Commo:   Voder, Interfaces=Power, Brain, Program

Sensors: BasicSensorPkg (2 visual, 2 audio, 1 olfactory), TouchSensor

Off:     None

Def:     None

Brain:   CPU=7 linear, Storage=11 standard,

         FundLogic=LowData, FundCmd=LimitedBasic, Software=Gunnery-1

Append:  LightArmx2, RotatingHead=10%

Other:   Fuel=52 liters, ObjSize=Small, EMLevel=Faint, ECP





Mora Mecatronics MarksmanII Robotic Gunner TL11



RobotID: MoMec MarksmanII Robotic Gunner, TL11, Cr33,000/26,000, UPP=F7x01x

Hull:    6/17, Size=100 liters, Config=Contour, Armour=1B, Weight=230 kg

Power:   3/4, FuelCell=1x40kW, Duration=8.8 days

Loco:    2/3, Legs=2, Road=25kph, OffRoad=10kph

Commo:   Voder, Interfaces=Power, Brain, Program

Sensors: BasicSensorPkg (2 visual, 2 audio, 1 olfactory), TouchSensor

Off:     None

Def:     None

Brain:   CPU=7 linear, Storage=11 standard,

         FundLogic=LowData, FundCmd=LimitedBasic, Software=Gunnery-1

Append:  LightArmx2, RotatingHead=10%

Other:   Fuel=52 liters, ObjSize=Small, EMLevel=Faint, ECP.





Mora Mecatronics MarksmanIII Robotic Gunner TL12



RobotID: MoMec MarksmanIII Robotic Gunner, TL12, Cr31,000/25,000, UPP=F8x01x

Hull:    6/17, Size=100 liters, Config=Contour, Armour=1B, Weight=230 kg

Power:   3/4, FuelCell=1x40kW, Duration=8.8 days

Loco:    2/3, Legs=2, Road=30kph, OffRoad=12kph

Commo:   Voder, Interfaces=Power, Brain, Program

Sensors: BasicSensorPkg (2 visual, 2 audio, 1 olfactory), TouchSensor

Off:     None

Def:     None

Brain:   CPU=5 linear, Storage=11 standard,

         FundLogic=LowData, FundCmd=LimitedBasic, Software=Gunnery-1

Append:  LightArmx2, RotatingHead=10%

Other:   Fuel=53 liters, ObjSize=Small, EMLevel=Faint, ECP.





Mora Mecatronics MarksmanIV Robotic Gunner TL13



RobotID: MoMec MarksmanIV Robotic Gunner, TL13, Cr33,000/26,000, UPP=F9x11x

Hull:    6/17, Size=100 liters, Config=Contour, Armour=1B, Weight=209 kg

Power:   2/3, FuelCell=1x45kW, Duration=13.6 days

Loco:    3/4, Legs=2, Road=35kph, OffRoad=14kph

Commo:   Voder, Interfaces=Power, Brain, Program

Sensors: BasicSensorPkg (2 visual, 2 audio, 1 olfactory), TouchSensor

Off:     None

Def:     None

Brain:   CPU=7 linear, Storage=11 standard,

         FundLogic=LowData, FundCmd=LimitedBasic, Software=Gunnery-2

Append:  LightArmx2, RotatingHead=10%

Other:   Fuel=65 liters, ObjSize=Small, EMLevel=Faint, ECP.





Mora Mecatronics MarksmanV Robotic Gunner TL14



RobotID: MoMec MarksmanV Robotic Gunner, TL14, Cr35,000/27,000, UPP=FAx21x

Hull:    6/17, Size=100 liters, Config=Contour, Armour=1B, Weight=209 kg

Power:   2/3, FuelCell=1x45kW, Duration=13.5 days

Loco:    3/4, Legs=2, Road=40kph, OffRoad=16kph

Commo:   Voder, Interfaces=Power, Brain, Program

Sensors: BasicSensorPkg (2 visual, 2 audio, 1 olfactory), TouchSensor

Off:     None

Def:     None

Brain:   CPU=9 linear, Storage=11 standard,

         FundLogic=LowData, FundCmd=LimitedBasic, Software=Gunnery-3

Append:  LightArmx2, RotatingHead=10%

Other:   Fuel=64 liters, ObjSize=Small, EMLevel=Faint, ECP.





Mora Mecatronics MarksmanVI Robotic Gunner TL15



RobotID: MoMec MarksmanVI Robotic Gunner, TL15, Cr37,000/30,000, UPP=FBx31x

Hull:    6/17, Size=100 liters, Config=Contour, Armour=1B, Weight=207 kg

Power:   1.5/2, FuelCell=1x60kW, Duration=22.7 days

Loco:    3/5, Legs=2, Road=55kph, OffRoad=22kph

Commo:   Voder, Interfaces=Power, Brain, Program

Sensors: BasicSensorPkg (2 visual, 2 audio, 1 olfactory), TouchSensor

Off:     None

Def:     None

Brain:   CPU=11 linear, Storage=11 standard,

         FundLogic=LowData, FundCmd=LimitedBasic, Software=Gunnery-4

Append:  LightArmx2, RotatingHead=10%

Other:   Fuel=81 liters, ObjSize=Small, EMLevel=Faint, ECP.







MASTERMEK SERIES MEKBOT (NAASIRKA UUKUGINE ADGAR-SERIES MEKBOT)

   In the late 1080's, Naasirka analysts noticed that their smaller competitor 

Makhidkarun had a big market dominance in the big mekbot niche and the 

administration decided, after long deliberation, that the technology in this 

field was mature enough for Naasirka to step in.

   In 1109 they unveiled the Uukugine Adgar (rough translation "Don't worry") 

series robot -- The robot that would take care of all that nasty business that 

takes place in the aft end of the ship and not bother the owner at all until 

it was time to buy spare parts.

   The development had been on shedule all the time, the prototypes had passed 

the trial periods with flying colors and the marketing department were 

predicting a commercial success. Then something happened.

   To get the robot to take proper care of the drives and installations in a 

ship, the Naasirka developers had equipped it with a strong, one could almost 

call it feelings, for properly working drives and equippment. When the robots 

came out in real live they were often put in situations where they got to do 

preventive maintainance and general repair of all of the equippment belonging 

to a ship.

   They had to repair small crafts and vehicles that had minor, and not so 

minor accidents, often involving weapons. They had to push the drives to the 

limit to evade hostile ships in the frontier war. Sometimes they got the same 

crafts and vehicles back again with similar damage after a few days. Sometimes 

they was forced to push the drives too hard and that damaged the drives.

   Some robots that was harassed in this way cracked after a few years. They 

begun to suffer from minor quirks. Some of them begun to neglect their work. 

Some of them became obsessed with total cleanliness in all areas of the ship. 

Some started to refuse to repair things that had been broken. Very few of them,

but one had been enough, used force to show the crew the proper way of 

treating their equippment...

   Very soon, the media caught on "Killer Robots with Lasers!" as the Imperial

Enquierer with its usual sense for the appropriate called it in a headline 

dated 054-1114. Sales deflated overnight. Nobody wanted a monster in their 

engine room.

   Naasirka managed to locate the problem and correct it very fast but the 

market strategy was in shambles. They took their only rout available to them 

which was to rename the series and transfer it to a daugher company. All old 

Uukugine Adgars were exchanged for new, corrected, MasterMeks. The new 

advertising strategy didn't call it the solution to all the engineering needs, 

but rather a very handy addition. This strategy worked but all the glitches in 

the robot model was still not ironed out.

   The corrections decreased the rate with which the robots broke and decrease 

the severity if they did, but it didn't stop it completely. It was still 

possible for extremely careless operators to make it crack. One big incident 

occured in mid 1116 when an MasterMek hijacked a Al-Morai liner and changed 

it's destination from Maitz to Mora. All major media reported on the "Naasirka 

Robotic Hijacker" and the local management for the Domain of Deneb took the 

decition to order the daughter company to discontinue the MasterMek due to the 

bad publicity that landed on Naasirka. All other local officed followed this 

decition.

   When the big Naasirka withdrawal from the territories far from the Ziru 

Sirkaa during late 1118 was finished many daughter companies had simply been 

sold off and the production rights had passed on to the new owners. Some of 

those begun production anew after renaming the robot once again.

   Referee: Whenever a Uukugine Adgar/MasterMek has to repair the same piece 

of equippment twice in a week (twice in a day if it is minor equippment) or an 

order to push the drives over the limit (as per StarshipOpMan) leads to damage 

to the ship. Roll this task:

   To keep the robot sane:

   Routine, RobotOps, Liaison, (fateful)

   Referee: If it is a bloc two model (after the errors was partially 

corrected) make this task Simple. Superficial mishaps are minor quirks. Minor 

mishap: The robot begins to take a view on how the equippment and ships is 

treated. Major mishap: The robot refuses to repair things, refused to perform 

actions that could possible damage the ships or equippment or becomes careless.

Destroyed mishap: The robot becomes violent.



   Marvin is presently at the Major mishap stage. He's got a number of quirks: 

he sings old strange songs while he work, he is very vocal and argumentative

during discussions and he has to be coaxed to push the drives hard or sabotage 

enemy ships "Well, if you *don't* do this Marvin, [the current enemy] will 

catch us and then you won't have any drives to take care of at all!"

   Besides, a borderline robot with a laserwelder in the engineroom can be 

useful when someone tries to board. "What?! Disable *my* drives?! Oh no you 

don't! <zap!>" :)



   Some notes about obscure devises:

   The two visual sensors are attached to a cut-down pair of PRIS glasses with 

the gyroscope taken out and the magnifying features replaced by short range 

magnification for working with small components.

   The reason for the extra sensitivity olfactory sensor is simple: Hot plastic

and metal smell and if the robot can detect that it has a great chance of 

locating the errors before they appear fully.

   The densitometer is mounted on one of the medium arms to be outside of the 

range of influence of the gravunits. It is, however, unusable while the ship 

uses gravitation technology of any kind.

   The ZGCombat-1 enable the robot to work in zero gee conditions, using it's 

gravunits at half strength.

   The master unit is intended to enable the robot to control up to five , 

MasterMek T robots that are identical, but lacks the brain. Production of the 

T model ceased in early 1114 however, and it has not been restarted anywhere 

as of 1121. The T models costed about 20% of equivalent XT model and they had 

far longer duration.





[Various] MasterMek XT-1 Mekbot TL13



RobotID: MasterMek XT-1 Mekbot, TL13, Cr593,000/475,000, UPP=XFx74x (X=62)

Hull:    13/33, Size=200 liters, Config=Sphere, Armour=18F, Weight=570 kg

Power:   4/5, FuelCell=2x60kW, Duration=2.2 days

Loco:    1/2, HVGrav=800kg, Cruise=360kph, Top=480kph, MaxAccel=0.40G

Commo:   Voder, Radio=Distant, Interfaces=Power, Brain, Program, Master Unit

Sensors: VisualSensorx2+PRIS Equivalent, AudioSensorx2+ExtraSensitivity,

         Olfactoryx1+ExtraSensitivity, TouchSensor+ExtraSensitivity,

         MagneticSenso, RadiationSensor, Densitometer=Surface, NeutrinoSensor,

         Spotlightx1

Off:     LaserWelder

Def:     None

Brain:   CPU=28 linear, 12 parallel, 3 synaptic Storage=46 standard,

         FundLogic=HighAuto, FundCmd=FullCmd, Software=Engineering-3,

         Electronics-2, Mecanical-2, Gravitics-1, ZGCombat-1, GravVehicle-1,

         LaserWelder-1, EmotionSimulation.

Append:  MediumArmsx2, LightTentaclex4, MecanicalToolPkg, ElectronicToolPkg,

         MetalworkToolPkg

Other:   Fuel=26 liters, ObjSize=Small, EMLevel=Faint, ECP





[Various] MasterMek XT-2 Mekbot TL14



RobotID: MasterMek XT-2 Mekbot, TL14, Cr597,000/478,000, UPP=XFx84x (X=62)

Hull:    13/33, Size=200 liters, Config=Sphere, Armour=18G, Weight=554 kg

Power:   4/5, FuelCell=2x60kW, Duration=2.1 days

Loco:    1/2, HVGrav=800kg, Cruise=360kph, Top=480kph, MaxAccel=0.44G

Commo:   Voder, Radio=Distant, Interfaces=Power, Brain, Program, Master Unit

Sensors: VisualSensorx2+PRIS Equivalent, AudioSensorx2+ExtraSensitivity,

         Olfactoryx1+ExtraSensitivity, TouchSensor+ExtraSensitivity,

         MagneticSenso, RadiationSensor, Densitometer=Surface, NeutrinoSensor,

         Spotlightx1

Off:     LaserWelder

Def:     None

Brain:   CPU=28 linear, 12 parallel, 3 synaptic Storage=46 standard,

         FundLogic=HighAuto, FundCmd=FullCmd, Software=Engineering-4,

         Electronics-2, Mecanical-2, Gravitics-1, ZGCombat-1, GravVehicle-1,

         LaserWelder-1, EmotionSimulation.

Append:  MediumArmsx2, LightTentaclex4, MecanicalToolPkg, ElectronicToolPkg,

         MetalworkToolPkg

Other:   Fuel=25 liters, ObjSize=Small, EMLevel=Faint, ECP





[Various] MasterMek XT-3 Mekbot TL15



RobotID: MasterMek XT-3 Mekbot, TL15, Cr597,000/477,000, UPP=XFx95x (X=62)

Hull:    13/33, Size=200 liters, Config=Sphere, Armour=18G, Weight=441 kg

Power:   1.5/2, FuelCell=1x120kW, Duration=12.2 days

Loco:    1/2, HVGrav=800kg, Cruise=720kph, Top=960kph, MaxAccel=0.8G

Commo:   Voder, Radio=Distant, Interfaces=Power, Brain, Program, Master Unit

Sensors: VisualSensorx2+PRIS Equivalent, AudioSensorx2+ExtraSensitivity,

         Olfactoryx1+ExtraSensitivity, TouchSensor+ExtraSensitivity,

         MagneticSenso, RadiationSensor, Densitometer=Surface, NeutrinoSensor,

         Spotlightx1

Off:     LaserWelder

Def:     None

Brain:   CPU=28 linear, 12 parallel, 3 synaptic Storage=50 standard,

         FundLogic=HighAuto, FundCmd=FullCmd, Software=Engineering-4,

         Electronics-3, Mecanical-3, Gravitics-1, ZGCombat-1, GravVehicle-1,

         LaserWelder-1, EmotionSimulation.

Append:  MediumArmsx2, LightTentaclex4, MecanicalToolPkg, ElectronicToolPkg,

         MetalworkToolPkg

Other:   Fuel=73 liters, ObjSize=Small, EMLevel=Faint, ECP





  There are some robots left in the files, among others a Vargr translator bot

that the players named "the flying junkpile", the silliest warbot in charted 

space and a pseudibio lisaison/linguistics robot with attatched prom-burner for

language-chips.



- - -bertil-

Obligatory Robot Joke of Dubious Quality:

Q: What do you call a pseudobiologocal robot with Legal-4?

A: Grace van Owen.



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2071

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 91 00:48:09 -0600

From: bonnevil@acc.stolaf.edu

Subject: Re:  (2068) automation







>Someone suggested that today's airplanes can pretty much fly themselves.  That

>may be so, but can they take off and land by themselves?  And would you want to

>fly on an automated plane?  Not me!



I feel like I'm going a bit out on a limb here, but from what I understand,

in a routine situation some modern passenger jets _can_ land by themselves

at a properly equipped airport.  I vaguely recall seeing a show which

mentioned that the Boeing 757 had this capability.  As I recall, most pilots

prefer not to use this function of the airplane, because the idea makes

them feel a bit uneasy.  Of course, if the pilot was incapacitated, this

might be handy...but in a storm, using it would be, well, inadvisable

(and probably illegal).  Please check this out yourselves, since I know

very little about this sort of thing, and could be wrong!



>No, *some* crew must be aboard to take care of emergencies.  I expect traveller

>starships will be very similar.



If I was building a robot-piloted craft, I'd feel best about one which

was used outside of atmospheres and insystem only, avoiding the two most

hazardous ship operations -- atmospheric transfer and jump initiation.

I'd feel even better if it didn't have much thrust; just in case. Then if

something goes wrong, someone can send a boat out to catch it, especially

if it was aimed at something important -- like Regina High Port.  If it

was carrying something especially important, it would be nice to have a 

sapient pilot and mechanic/engineer on board (and maybe a medic, if it's

a long trip and you don't trust robot doctors).



- - --Steve





------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2072

Date: Sat, 12 Jan 91 15:49 EST

From: Rob Miracle <RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Subject: FGMPs



>Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk> writes:

>>d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se writes:

>> I can see it: Kids running around waving plastic FGMP-15's and playing Zho's

>> and Marines (or Lucan and Dulinor:)

>

>This reminds me of an incident I arranged a long time ago while I was referee.

>The PC's ship was boarded by some people wearing impressive uniforms, and

>carrying impressive ID cards and FGMP's.



On a totally unrelated subject, in a AD&D V2R1 (some reason SVR4 is stuck in my

head) game that I am reffing, I found this on a characters sheet of one of my

players:



Weapons of Proficiancy

[ Long Sword         ]

[ Long Bow           ]

[ FGMP-15            ]

[ Dagger             ]



Seems humerous :-)



Rob



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2073

From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>

Subject: Re: Robots as crewmembers

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 91 9:59:32 GMT



METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu writes:

> 

> As for utterly automated ships, this gives rise to all sorts of fascinating

> scenaria, most of which I think would work better in a game like Space Opera

> than in MT, but that's a personal bias.....

>  ...

> "Yeah, see, that's the problem. The computer's gotten kind of antisocial;

> it keeps spacing its crews. We can't get to it to disconnect it, either.

> You see the problem?"



So someone else has been reading Adventure 1, Kinunir!



A few comments on TL 15 automated ships.  First, given that TL 8 aircraft have

fairly effective auto-pilots, I'd expect that a ship's auto-pilot of TL 10 or

more could land the ship.  (Come to that, the TL 8 Space Shuttle practically

lands itself.  The pilot is there in case all four computers malfunction.  On

one occasion when the shuttle did land manually, the landing was a bit bumpier

than the previous computer-controlled ones.)  Also, in Ye Olde Book 3, in the

section about equipment, it mentioned that ground cars were computer driven

at TL 10, and in fact in some places driving by humans was illegal.  So at TL

15, I'd be surprised if a ship couldn't take off, fly, and land by itself

without human interference.  Assuming, that is, that nothing unexpected

happened.  Computers can only deal with the expected, i.e. what the programmer

expected.  Human crews would be there in case of the unexpected, and might be

required by law - especially on passenger carrying craft.



There is, of course, one problem with making everything TL 15.  What do you

do for spare parts when (N.B. "when", not "if") something breaks down?  This

is why ships like Type S Scout/Couriers and Type A Free Traders are TL 9 or

TL 10.  There are more TL 10+ planets out there than TL 15+ planets.



- - -- 

 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott



 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs

 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2074

Date: Monday 14th January 1991 10:52:55 GMT

From: Alan Huscroft <ASSHUSCR@cms.am.cc.reading.ac.uk>

Subject: Starship crews & Robots



 

If I recall correctly, the Starship Ops Manual made allowance for

the possibility of running ships with reduced crew, even without

the help of robots or oversized computers.  You just increase the

level of difficulty for the relevant tasks if somebody has to do

more than one job.

 

No, this isn't the start of an anti-robot tirade.  Keep the robot

designs coming in.  BTW, is anybody going to collect robots in an

anonymous ftp archive, as someone did with vehicles?

 

............................................................................

: Alan Huscroft              : Janet:    A.Huscroft@uk.ac.reading          :

: Reading, England           : Internet: A.Huscroft@reading.ac.uk          :

: 6-G takeoffs AND landings! : X-boat:   A.Huscroft@terra.sol.solomani_rim :

:............................:.............................................:



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2075

From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>

Subject: Black Globes redux

Date: Tue, 15 Jan 91 10:28:51 PST



I realize that we haven't touched on this topic for a while, and I

hate to re-open this can of worms, but I just got struck by a thought

that's too wierd not to share.



I've been reading the Science&Technology stream on the MegaTraveller

BBS on GEnie.  At one point they started talking about black globes

and a) whether or not they were affected by gravity, b) what happens

when something solid strikes them, and c) how do they affect their

surroundings when they're landed on a planet.



The consensus (which includes such prestigious names a Joe Fugate,

James Holden, Ed Edwards, and Mike Mikesh) is:



A)  Black globes cut off gravity.  If you turn one on while in orbit

    around a large body (i.e. planet), you suddenly take off in a straight

    line, tangetial to that body.



B)  Any solid striking a black globe will demonstrate all the properties

    of a perfect inelastic collision, with all the kenetic energy tranferred

    to the globe.  The only thing the occupants of the globe would notice

    is an energy raise in their capacitors.



C)  If a black globe were to be set down on a planets surface, it would

    immediately begin to drain the energy of everything in contact with

    it.  This means the thermal and kenetic energy of the atmosphere and

    ground (or water if you landed at sea) would be intantaneously trans-

    ferred to the globe, causing gases and fluids to freeze.  Of course,

    once a sufficiently thick layer of ice (at absolute zero) forms on the

    surface of the globe, the thermal transfer would slow down, since it's

    now taking place through a layer of normal (very cold) matter.



I know, I know, the TML readership pretty much came to the same decisions

separately, I'm just setting the background for my inspiration, which is

this:



I don't think that situation C would ever have time to occur.  If the

globe absorbs ALL collisions and is uneffected by gravity, wouldn't an

ENTIRE planet pushing against it cause it's capacitors to overload REAL

fast?  This assumes the planet even stays in contact long enough to

transfer that much energy.



Picture this: you have a starship equiped with a black globe, and you

are in a star system where there is a world orbiting at 146.6 km/sec.

at 1 AU.  You calculate a straight-line vector through the system such

that your course will intersect that of the planet a split second before

the planet gets there.  You also plan to be travelling slightly slower

than the planets obital velocity, say 140 km/sec.  If you could somehow

eliminate gravitational effects on your ship during this course, then

when you arrived at the intersection point, the planet would come up

and smack you in the ass at 6.6 km/sec.  Aha!  But you can eliminate

the gravitation effects!  Just come up to the correct velocity on your

course and turn on your black globe generator.  Now you're on a straight

line course through the system.



At the appointed time, you intersect the planet's orbit just as it

catches up with you.  Your ship (surrounded by the globe) burrows

into the atmosphere and is stuck by the planetary surface at 6.6 km/sec.

However, you are unaffected by the impact as all the kenetic energy

is absorbed by the globe and tranferred to the capacitors.  Your

vector and velocity CANNOT change becauce this requires interaction

with some outside force (ANY outside force) and the black globe prevents

this.  Result: your ship burrows right thru the planet at 6.6 km/sec.,

side-slipping as it goes (you're not following the same orbital path

as the planet, remember?).  All the planetary material (crust, mantle,

core, etc.) is pushed aside by the other matter around it, with the

friction, pressure, and compression energies all absorbed by the globe.



Good-bye planet, yes?  Well, maybe if you had capacitors with infinite

storage capability.  But since you don't, they probably overload just

a split-second after your globe impacts the planets surface.  Good-bye

capacitors.  Good-bye black globe.  Good-bye starship.  Hello huge,

blast crater.  C'est la vie.  Heck, maybe it wouldn't even need to

make contact with the planet's surface.  I suspect that plowing through

200 klicks of atmosphere at 6+ km/sec. would generate several A-bombs

worth of energy.  That would probably do it all by itself.



Hmmmm.  Come to think of it, maybe that's what caused the Great Tunguska

Event of 1908 in Siberia. :-)



Later,



        Mark F. Cook



USMail: User Interface Technical Support

        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation

        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330



INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com

          markc%hpcvss.cv.hp.com@relay.hp.com



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2076

From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>

Subject: Black Globes: another interesting reference...

Date: Tue, 15 Jan 91 11:01:15 PST



Here's something by Joe Fugate from last May (again, on the GEnie MT BBS):



"    .

     .

     .

Then there's the famed "Black Globe World" in the Vargr Extents. On that world

(Tuglikki 0904), a Vargr researcher activated a black globe and it promptly

expanded to engulf a radius of 50 km from its location within 24 hours. That

was in 973 (Imperial). That black globe engulfed the entire world within a

year and kept growing, although at a slower rate. The black globe has reached

20,000 km in size and continues to grow at a rate of about 20 km per standard

year.  In about 2 trillion years, assuming the globe's rate remains constant,

it will have engulfed all of charted space. Recently, however -- for some

unknown reason -- the globe's expansion rate has been increasing dramatically.

Many researchers theorize this increased expansion rate means the globe is

about to "go into overload." A globe of this size, if it releases all of its

aborbed energy in one sudden blast, would devastate the entire parsec (both

star systems).



- - --Joe, DGP"



Haes anybody ever heard about this one before?  It's completely new to me.



Later,



        Mark F. Cook



USMail: User Interface Technical Support

        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation

        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330



INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com

          markc%hpcvss.cv.hp.com@relay.hp.com



------------------------------



End of TML Bundle

*****************



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TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,

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------------------------------------------------------------



Date: Tue Feb 12 13:53:48 PST 1991

From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)

Subject: TML Bundle #168: Table of Contents



-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------

2077  15-Jan-91 Mark F. Cook      I should look before I leap... << Based on my

2078  15-Jan-91 George William He Black Globes << hrm. The material in Knightfa

2079  16-Jan-91 grue@batserver.cs Black Globe ideas << >Date: Tue, 15 Jan 91 10

2080  16-Jan-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: Black globes and gravity << Mark F. Cook 

2081  16-Jan-91 wrgate.wr.tek.com Re: 2075-2077 Black Globes << Mark quoted fro

2082  16-Jan-91 matth@mars.njit.e Navy Question << I've been reading in the MT 

2083  16-Jan-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Grav Vehicle Tactics and Armor << In your let

2084  16-Jan-91 wilber%nunki.usc. Black Globes again << Many of you mentioned t

2085  16-Jan-91 George William He Grav Vehicles and Overhead Attacks << This de

2086  17-Jan-91 bonnevil@acc.stol Re: (2081) Black Globes << I hate to duck int

2087  17-Jan-91 plb@violin.att.CO GEnie and MT << Operating System: HP-UX A.B7.

2088  18-Jan-91 wilson m liaw     MT on GEnie << Once you get on GEnie, type "s

2089  18-Jan-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: Black globes being hit by missiles << gru

2090  18-Jan-91 "Robert S. Dean"  RoboSpeed << With regard to some of your comm

2091  18-Jan-91 wrgate.wr.tek.com Nuclear_Dampers << Mark Cook and I had been t

2092  19-Jan-91 Rob Miracle       Re: GEnie << From: In Message (2087) plb@viol

2093  21-Jan-91 chk@alias         Re: Nuclear_Dampers << > This is a little wea

2094  22-Jan-91 mcknight@tusun2.m Other nets << If anyone is interested, there 

2095  23-Jan-91 "Robert S. Dean"  How to Handle this? << Since we have been hav

2096  23-Jan-91 tom               sector data (and stuff) << this is my first p

2097  23-Jan-91 Mark F. Cook      PGMP/FGMP Fuel & Starship Fuel << I've got tw



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2077

From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>

Subject: I should look before I leap...

Date: Tue, 15 Jan 91 11:08:57 PST



Based on my subject line, maybe I'd better start running Vargr

characters. :-)



Regarding my post about black globed ships slamming into planets and

overloading, I guess I should have read a bit further into the MT BBS

on GEnie before proposing MY brilliant inspiration, to wit:



- - ------------------

Category 11,  Topic 10

Message 194       Sun May 13, 1990

M.MIKESH                     at 16:53 EDT



 Subject: Black Globes



 Joe -

      <Of course, one thing everyone has been assuming is that the

 ship/energy sinks onboard the space vessel with the black globe could

 absorb all this energy that the vessel gathered when it entered an

 atmosphere.>

      True.  We've just been talking in theory so we can develope a

 better understanding of what's going on.

      <In actuality, I see the energy sinks of the owning vessel going

 into an overload condition if it enters a world's atmosphere.>

      You're right.  I just ran through the equations, and what I found

 was that the energy in de-orbiting and that which a J-1 ship could

 absorb was well over 10 million times in difference.

      The scarry thing about this was that the lion's share of the

 energy was in the form of potential energy ( E=mgh ).  This means that

 a globed ship had best stay away from a planet.  A slight change in

 depth to a gravity well could spell doom.

- - ------------------



Well, at least it's nice to know I think along the same lines as the MT

designers, huh?



                "Here's the next plant for your collection, Turin.  It's

                 a Pharosian Bitching Cactus.  Where do you want it?"

                        "...MY NEEDLES ARE TOO DRY...MY POTTING SOIL

                         ISN'T SANDY ENOUGH...THIS POT IS TOO SMALL,

                         I'M GETTING ROOT-BOUND...IT'S TOO DARK IN HERE..."

                "...put it in the airlock."

                                [paraphrased from my MT campaign]

Later,



        Mark F. Cook



USMail: User Interface Technical Support

        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation

        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330



INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com

          markc%hpcvss.cv.hp.com@relay.hp.com



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2078

Date: Tue, 15 Jan 91 23:12:13 -0900

From: George William Herbert <gwh@soda.Berkeley.EDU>

Subject: Black Globes





hrm.  The material in Knightfall (information about a sneak-attack planetary

assault from black-globed ships) tends to indicate that Gravity does indeed 

affect ships in Black Globes.



- - -george



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2079

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 91 21:55:29 GMT

From: grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au

Subject: Black Globe ideas



>Date: Tue, 15 Jan 91 10:28:51 PST

>From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>

>Subject: (2075) Black Globes redux



>B)  Any solid striking a black globe will demonstrate all the properties

>    of a perfect inelastic collision, with all the kenetic energy tranferred

>    to the globe.  The only thing the occupants of the globe would notice

>    is an energy raise in their capacitors.



This would make black globes next to useless against incoming missiles.

Think of the KE that a missile that has been accelerating for 20 minutes

at 6Gs.  I would assume that 6Gs would have to be a minimum for a missile

and 20 minutes is a combat round!  A standard HE missile has a weight of

0.05 Tonnes which is 50 kgs.  g = 9.8 m/s/s so 6G = 58.8

for a time of 20*60=1200 seconds.



v = v0 + a.t = 0 + 9.8 * 1200 = 70600m/s



            2                                                    11

ke = 0.5 m v  = 0.5 * 50 * 4984360000 = 124609000000 = 1.246 * 10   J



Is that a big number or what!  Splat goes one space ship!



Just think what a small suicide fighter would be capable of (the perfect

place to use a robot pilot --- while attacking black globe shielded

ships).





Worse, since mass is energy (E=mc^2), wouldn't the globe have to absorbe

the energy of a mass placed in contact with it?



I hope I got the above figures correct, I never was much good at physics.

I'm sure somebody on the list will correct me when I'm wrong.











							Pauli

seeya



Paul Dale               | Internet/CSnet:            grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au

Dept of Computer Science| Bitnet:       grue%batserver.cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net

Uni of Qld              | JANET:           grue%batserver.cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc

Australia, 4072         | EAN:                          grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz

                        | UUCP:           uunet!munnari!batserver.cs.uq.oz!grue

f4e6g4Qh4++             | JUNET:                     grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2080

From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>

Subject: Re: Black globes and gravity

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 91 13:08:26 GMT



Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM> writes:

> 

> A)  Black globes cut off gravity.  If you turn one on while in orbit

>     around a large body (i.e. planet), you suddenly take off in a straight

>     line, tangetial to that body.



Does the theory about gravitons apply in Traveller?  If so, how's this for

a perpetual motion machine?



1. Vehicle with black globe sits at a certain height.  Globe is off.  Vehicle

falls.

2. Vehicle switches on its globe.  Vehicle now takes off as described above,

and also absorbs the gravitons.

3. Vehicle shuts off globe, uses some of the energy absorbed to move along

back to its previous position, and beams the rest at the planet.

4. Go to 1.



In another article, Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM> writes:

>       You're right.  I just ran through the equations, and what I found

>  was that the energy in de-orbiting and that which a J-1 ship could

>  absorb was well over 10 million times in difference.

>       The scarry thing about this was that the lion's share of the

>  energy was in the form of potential energy ( E=mgh ).  This means that

>  a globed ship had best stay away from a planet.  A slight change in

>  depth to a gravity well could spell doom.



How far away must it stay from the planet?  The further it gets away,

the more potential energy it gains, as h in the above equation gets

bigger.  Meanwhile, it's losing potential energy as it gets closer to

something else, e.g. a star 2 parsecs away.



- - -- 

 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott



 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs

 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2081

Subject: Re: 2075-2077 Black Globes

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 91 9:20:15 PST

From: wrgate.wr.tek.com!agora.rain.com!carlf@tessi.UUCP (Carl Fago)



Mark quoted from Genie:



> Then there's the famed "Black Globe World" in the Vargr Extents. On that world

> (Tuglikki 0904), a Vargr researcher activated a black globe and it promptly

> expanded to engulf a radius of 50 km from its location within 24 hours. That

> was in 973 (Imperial). That black globe engulfed the entire world within a

> year and kept growing, although at a slower rate. The black globe has reached

> 20,000 km in size and continues to grow at a rate of about 20 km per standard

> year.  In about 2 trillion years, assuming the globe's rate remains constant,

> it will have engulfed all of charted space. Recently, however -- for some

> unknown reason -- the globe's expansion rate has been increasing dramatically.

> Many researchers theorize this increased expansion rate means the globe is

> about to "go into overload." A globe of this size, if it releases all of its

> aborbed energy in one sudden blast, would devastate the entire parsec (both

> star systems).



Now the question comes up about what happens to gravity with black globes

and what are the effects?



I propose that a black globe reduces any factor of "g" (the gravitational

constant) from external bodies, to zero.  This makes any black globe

maintain its proper motion with respect to the universe at large.  Thus this

Vargr black globe would not be staying in Tuglikki 0904 but would be

travelling at some velocity (probably large) depending on the proper motion

of the star system it is in, depending on the proper motion of the galaxy,

and depending on the proper motion of the galactic cluster!



So the question you have to ask yourselves is, "Is it heading my way and

can I sell my property before it gets here or someone else finds out!!!"



> M.MIKESH                     at 16:53 EDT

> 

>  Subject: Black Globes

> 

>  Joe -

>       <Of course, one thing everyone has been assuming is that the

>...

>       <In actuality, I see the energy sinks of the owning vessel going

>  into an overload condition if it enters a world's atmosphere.>

>       You're right.  I just ran through the equations, and what I found

>  was that the energy in de-orbiting and that which a J-1 ship could

>  absorb was well over 10 million times in difference.

>       The scarry thing about this was that the lion's share of the

>  energy was in the form of potential energy ( E=mgh ).  This means that

>  a globed ship had best stay away from a planet.  A slight change in

>  depth to a gravity well could spell doom.



And I would have to disagree with the designers on this point.  Potential

energy would have no effect (or at least it would if one assumed my

previous point of reducing external gravitational constants to zero.)

Hence g=0 thus E (potential) = 0.  Now the kinetic energy traveling

through the atmosphere is another matter all together and I am in 

agreement...don't travel to a planet's surface with your black globe

on!



                     *-=Carl=-*

		     

		     carlf@agora.rain.com



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2082

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 91 09:48:58 EST

From: matth@mars.njit.edu (Matthew Harelick)

Subject: Navy Question





I've been reading in the MT Ref's manual about  fleets, Batrons and CruRons. 

There is one piece of information I can't quite find however. How large is 

a typical Imperial Fleet? How many of what types of ships could be found there?



- - - Matt



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2083

Date:     Wed, 16 Jan 91 14:49:53 EST

From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>

Subject:  Grav Vehicle Tactics and Armor



In your letter dated Tue, 15 Jan 91 14:27:22 MET, you wrote:

>

>From: <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>

>Subject: Re: Striker and Agility

>

>>The one good thing about simplifying Striker into the MT design system, in my

>>opinion, was to get rid of the "what are the dimensions of your box" section.

>>It really shouldn't make that much difference, but it was, for me, the 

>>difference between designing 200 MT vehicles in a year, and designing 8 

>>Striker vehicles in 10 years.  It might be that Striker would look much easier

>>now that I am used to MT.  Putting in armor slope without using actual vehicle

>>dimensions could be difficult.  The other thing I should point out is that 

>>the new combat rules make armor less critical than it was in Striker.  In MT, 

>>you need 2x the armor value to get a "high penetration" result, which causes 

>>double damage.  In Striker, I seem to recall that a +12 difference between 

>>armor and peentration was enough to cause a certain kill of the target.  So 

>>to some extent, armor slope "comes oput in the wash" as we say here.  The 

>>pinpoint damage rule also sort of simulates aiming for the non-sloped surfaces.

>

>  One thing that I definitly dislike about the MegaT vehicle design is that all

>vehicle armour is spread in an layer of equal thickness all over them.

>

>  I can understand the need for this when it comes to staships, but I dislike

>the impact of this on tactical situations. Suddenly, it's no advantage to 

>fire down on a tank, or suprising it from behind.

>

>  A favourite of mine that I used before I even knew that Striker existed, the

>light speeder with several VRFGaussGuns that plays A10 from high elevations

>down through the more or less lightly armoured roofs:)

>

>  A simple solution would be to reduce the armour thickness by some factor for

>the secondary surfaces (0.75) and increase it for the front surfaces (1.25).

>

>  Thanks for the v1.1. I'm looking at it to integrate it into RebelGuard.

>

>>Rob Dean

>

>-bertil-







Bertil,



     I  have been considering your comments on the armoring of grav  vehicles 

since  yesterday, since I wanted to make some sort of coherent  response.   I 

think  one of the drawbacks of electronic communications is that we  tend  to 

type things without really thinking about them.



     The  answer to the armoring question depends very much on what style  of 

fighting  you  would anticipate.  Are grav vehicles going to hug  the  ground 

most  of  the time, or get up and tangle in dogfights  like  current  fighter 

aircraft?   Are they going to have friends on either flank, with an enemy  to 

the front, or is their higher speed and ability to bypass obstacles going  to 

lead to a confused brawl spreading over many square miles (square  kilometers 

for you metric types)?  Are they going to hide in hull down positions  making 

it  reasonable to put extra armor on the turret?  How much threat  of  attack 

from above is there going to be?



     Obviously  all of these things are dynamic--your VRF gauss gun  overhead 

attack craft would probably lead to my designing a series of tanks with armor 

thick  enough to resist penetration from that threat (and maybe a  backup  PD 

laser turret), which would prompt you to field an attack craft with a  bigger 

gun, etc...



     I would expect that grav tanks would mostly hug the ground, reducing the 

number of angles that a threat could come from, and also reducing the need to 

carry  heavy  belly armor.  I expect that "Pop-up" tactics  as  described  in 

various  Traveller  materials would make top deck armor a priority.   I  also 

expect  that the battle would be more of a confused brawl than a nice  linear 

action, making it more reasonable to spread out my armor protection.  Below a 

certain  level, of course, I have no aspect which is protected from an  enemy 

tank  main gun, but also no aspect which is vulnerable to a  lighter  weapon.  

The  best  defense then is to concentrate on targeting and  SHOOT  FIRST.   I 

forget  now where I read an interesting commentary on the design of  the  M-1 

tank,  and how its armor layout no longer matched the non-linear battle  doc-

trine  that the U.S. Army was planning on using, that is, that the number  of 

shots  expected against the frontal armor did not justify carrying  all  that 

weight to protect only one side.



     It would not be unreasonable, though, to implement some sort of  differ-

ential armor scheme on the grounds that you could then make you own  doctrine 

to  match  your weapons systems.  In the absence of that, I think  you  could 

certainly try the 1.5x, .75x rule you suggest, and see how it works out.



     I'm going to post this and your note to the net for wider discussion.



Rob Dean









------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2084

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 91 14:04:08 PST

From: wilber%nunki.usc.edu@usc.edu (John Wilber)

Subject: Black Globes again





Many of you mentioned the possibility of overload with a black globe

contacting several solid objects, bumping into large planets, and so

on.  The ancients solved this problem by finding a way to create a

large, nearly infinite "energy sink."  This is mentioned in Adventure

13 from the old Traveller books.  I forgot what the title of the book

was, but I do remember how they made the "sink."  I'm not giving any

more detail here so I don't spoil the adventure for somebody else, but

if you want to know, mail me at wilber@nunki.usc.edu.



John

wilber@nunki.usc.edu



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2085

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 91 20:40:42 -0900

From: George William Herbert <gwh@soda.Berkeley.EDU>

Subject: Grav Vehicles and Overhead Attacks





This debate has actually occured in real life recently, over the problems of

armoured vehicles vulnerability to overhead attack.  The conclusion was that

the next generation of vehicles was going to have a reduction in armour level

of more like 1/2 from side to top, with the side being nearly 2/3 of frontal

armour thickness.  This contrasts with current vehicles where the sides are

less than 1/2 of frontal thickness, and the top only about 1/10 of the frontal.



I would believe that with the transition/simplification from Striker to MT,

they (GDW) assumed that armour becomes nearly uniform (my relative thicknesses

above).  This will make things like overhead attack moot... 8-)



- - -george



ps- We have some reports that a TL8-9 superpower on Terra just launched a 

massive air assault on a TL7ish minor power that had recently invaded one of

its neighbors.  In typical gaming style, it appears that of several thousand

sorties there were no losses to the attackers.  Reality continues to be stranger

than fiction... 8-)



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2086

Date: Thu, 17 Jan 91 01:30:14 -0600

From: bonnevil@acc.stolaf.edu

Subject: Re: (2081) Black Globes





I hate to duck into these techno debates, but I have a few questions and/or

comments about this one involving the force field generator.



>I propose that  a black globe reduces any factor of "g" (the gravitational

>constant) from external bodies, to zero.  This makes any black globe

>maintain its proper motion with respect to the universe at large.  Thus this

>Vargr black globe would not be staying in Tuglikki 0904 but would be

>travelling at some velocity (probably large) depending on the proper motion

>of the star system it is in, depending on the proper motion of the galaxy,

>and depending on the proper motion of the galactic cluster!



Ummm, proper motion relative to what frame of reference?  I vaguely

recall something from freshman physics that there is no universal frame

of reference...proper motion is always relative to _something_, and

I vaguely recall that this something can be picked arbitrarily.  There

shouldn't be a universe at large frame of reference then, right?

Maybe I'm wrong -- one of you physics majors might want to jump in here.



[Right on, in Einsteinian General Relativity, all frames of reference

are valid - there is no "master" frame of reference.  The Universe's

rules apparently hold true for all observers, and there is no underlying

"grid" or "mesh" to the Universe that is special or fixed.  All events

in the Universe happen relative to each other.  Nonetheless, there are

several holes in EGR in Traveller.  Perhaps there is a non-relativistic

universal frame of reference available through a small oversight in

Einsteinian theory.  How else can you suspend your disbelief that matter

can travel faster than light? That reactionless thrusters can function?

How many holes and hand-waving you permit in your campaign is a function

of the Player's and Ref's ability to suspend their disbelief.  -- James]



Another question for physics majors...can the PE problem be gotten rid of

if the potential energy of a system involving a large body and a bg'ed

ship is set at zero for the ship arbitrarily, and the PE is assigned to

the planet whose gravity the ship is falling into?  Then the ship would

just have to worry about the KE when the planet hit it, right?  (Sort

of thinking about the problem backwards.)  It's been a while, so I may

be missing something important here....but if that works, maybe it solves

the problems about approaching planets.



Personally, if I was using a globe, I'd be worried about KE weapons --

but then, it might be a bad idea to have it on a high rate of flicker

if I thought they knew where I was.  Then again, if it can nail the

capacitors, it can probably get me anyway!



- - --Steve



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2087

From: plb@violin.att.COM

Subject: GEnie and MT

Date: Thu, 17 Jan 91 10:05:21 EST



Operating System: HP-UX A.B7.00 U

Organization: AT&T-BL, Red Hill System Administration Group (HRSAG)

Location: HR 2C119

Phone: (201) 615-4419

Return-receipt:

X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL5]



I keep hearing about a MT Bulletin Board on GEnie... How the heck

do you get there??   I have (now) a GEnie account and have been

pulling what little hair I have out trying to find it.





- - -- 

Peter L. Berghold | TELEPHONE: +1 (908) 615-4419

- - ------------------+---------------------------------------------------

EMAIL ADDRESSES:   BIX - PETEB  COMPU$ERVE - 70152,3017 

FAX (908) 706-2004 DELPHI - BERGHOLD GENIE - PBERGHOLD



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2088

From: wilson m liaw <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>

Subject: MT on GEnie

Date: Fri, 18 Jan 91 2:27:02 EST



Once you get on GEnie, type "scropia" to get to the gamers roundtable.

Once there, go to the bulletins area, and select cat 11. Cat 11 is

devoted to MegaTraveller discussion.



				Mac



Wilson MacGyver                      | "I know what he said, it isn't evil, it

Internet:macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu | isn't good, it's not anything, it's

=====================================| everything. That's so like Fizban!"

Disclaimer:All opinions are mine only|              - Laurana, in DragonLance



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2089

From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>

Subject: Re: Black globes being hit by missiles

Date: Fri, 18 Jan 91 10:14:16 GMT



grue@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au writes:

> >From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>

> >Subject: (2075) Black Globes redux

> 

> >B)  Any solid striking a black globe will demonstrate all the properties

> >    of a perfect inelastic collision, with all the kenetic energy tranferred

> >    to the globe.  The only thing the occupants of the globe would notice

> >    is an energy raise in their capacitors.

> 

> This would make black globes next to useless against incoming missiles.

> <Assume a 50 kg missile has been accelerating for 20 minutes at 6G.>

>

> for a time of 20*60=1200 seconds.

> 

> v = v0 + a.t = 0 + 9.8 * 1200 = 70600m/s

		 0 + 9.8*6*1200 = 70560 m/s



>             2                                                    11

> ke = 0.5 m v  = 0.5 * 50 * 4984360000 = 124609000000 = 1.246 * 10   J

> 

> Is that a big number or what!  Splat goes one space ship!



Two points.



First, that assumes that the target ship isn't moving.  If the target takes

any evasive action, some of that acceleration is going to be used up following

the target.  Second, if the target is moving towards the missile at the time of

impact, the target's velocity gets added to the missile's velocity; if the

target is moving away from the missile, the target's velocity gets subtracted.



However, these figures will probably do for an order of magnitude analysis.



The MT Referee's Manual says that 1 kilolitre of capacitors can absorb 650 MW

of energy.  Which just shows what a heap of junk the MT Referee's manual is -

MW is power, not energy.  If 1 kilolitre of capacitors can absorb energy equal

to 650 MW coming in for one full turn, i.e.

        6                 11

650 * 10 * 1200 = 7.8 * 10   J



then that kinetic energy will hardly be noticed.  It all depends on how long

that 1 kilolitre of capacitors can absorb 650 MW.



- - -- 

 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott



 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs

 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2090

Date:     Fri, 18 Jan 91 15:16:41 EST

From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>

Subject:  RoboSpeed



With regard to some of your comments regarding speed calculation for robots

that you included with the design package you uploaded:



I would expect that many robots would be operating in a mixed human/robot

environment, such as an office, a hotel, or a starship.  In that case, I

think that the amount of clutter in most people's offices/hallways/homes

would tend to keep robot speed low regardless of the theoretical maximum.



I know that if I had a wheeled Naasirka Office Mate here and I sent it to

the coffee maker for a cup of coffee it would have to dodge around a lot

of junk in the halls (not to mention the rest of the people).  There 

wouldn't be a chance of zipping down there at 100kph.  Similarly, a grav robot

should probably be considered to be using NOE speed for most building interiors

which would limit them to 40kph unless they had avionics.  Even then, I hate

to get bumped by a 100kph robot in the hall.



Anyway, if you sent these robots out on the roads or other trafficways by

themselves, they could then use their speed effectively.  I know using the

P/W calculations on wheeled/tracked/legged robots will tend to make them

fast because they need a lot (comparatively) of power to run peripherals,

but there is really no reason to design an indoor grav robot with more than

a nominal amount of excess thrust (.1G or so?).  So some of this could be

covered in the design section without having to do a separate table for them.



Rob Dean





------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2091

Subject: Nuclear_Dampers

Date: Fri, 18 Jan 91 14:02:23 PST

From: wrgate.wr.tek.com!agora.rain.com!carlf@tessi.UUCP (Carl Fago)



Mark Cook and I had been talking about how certain items work (similar to the

recent Black Globe discussion).  Mark sent me this info off GEnie:



> TOPIC:  NUCLEAR DAMPERS

>

>     Going way to back to Mercenary [p. 42]:

>

>      'A common term, dampers units actually may be used to increase or

>decrease the stability of atomic nuclei.  Projecting from two seperate

>stations, the intersection of the two transmitted broadcasts produces a

>series of nodes and anti-nodes.  In the area of the nodes, the strong nuclear

>force is enhanced, making the nucleus more stable.  In the area of the

>anti-nodes, the strong nuclear force is depressed, making the nucleus much

>less stable.  Anti-nodes are focused on incoming nuclear warheads, causing

>them to shed neutrons at low energy levels, rendering the warheads

>inoperable....  This damper is later developed into a disintegrator weapon,

>beginning at tech level 16.'



My reply:



This is a little weak in the "explanation" area.  It requires "two transmitted

broadcasts" but of what?  Also, the logic of "shedding neutrons" is faulted

from the standpoint that neutrons is what is _required_ to initiate a fission

reaction.  If the anti-node is strong enough to shed lots of neutrons faster

than it takes the fission reaction to occer, then I say you already have your

disintegrator weapon.



If the nodes were focused on the weapon, then any neutron emitted to try and

generate the fission reaction would more likely be absorbed (creating U-236

with a 2.3E7 year half-life (long)) or bounce off (billiard ball

interaction...or rather ping pong ball/bowling ball interaction).  The

increase in the nuclear force would tend to make fission less likely.  This

may be similar technology to what is used to make bonded-superdense material.



Also, if you had to aim the nodes (as it seems), wouldn't it be easier to have

a laser point defense system???



With all my nuclear damper bashing, I suppose I should come up with a

"reasonable" explanation for it...



- - -------------



So I thought I'd throw this into the TML for any other input...



*-=Carl=-*



carlf@agora.rain.com



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2092

Date: Sat, 19 Jan 91 12:20 EST

From: Rob Miracle <RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Subject: Re: GEnie



From:

In Message (2087) plb@violin.att.COM (Peter L. Berghold) writes:



>I keep hearing about a MT Bulletin Board on GEnie... How the heck

>do you get there??   I have (now) a GEnie account and have been

>pulling what little hair I have out trying to find it.



Once you are on line, you can type the keyword: SCORPIA  and it will take you

to the Games Forum By Scorpia.  At that point, you can select the library files

and Traveller is Group 11 I belive.  Or you can go to the Games menu and look

for the Games Roundtable.



Rob



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2093

From: chk@alias (C. Harald Koch)

Subject: Re: Nuclear_Dampers

Date: Mon, 21 Jan 91 10:16:54 EST



> This is a little weak in the "explanation" area.  It requires "two transmitted

> broadcasts" but of what?



The answer to that can be as simple as 'we don't know yet; Terra @ 1991 is

only TL8 (or is it 7?)'. It isn't necessary to explain every little detail

of how something like this works; if we knew we'd have invented it here on

this planet...



> Also, the logic of "shedding neutrons" is faulted

> from the standpoint that neutrons is what is _required_ to initiate a fission

> reaction.  If the anti-node is strong enough to shed lots of neutrons faster

> than it takes the fission reaction to occer, then I say you already have your

> disintegrator weapon.



Yes, but the key words were 'low engery'. The decrease in nuclear force

means that the neutrons don't need alot of energy to escape; presumably

their energy is low enough that they don't cause fission reactions.



> Also, if you had to aim the nodes (as it seems), wouldn't it be easier to have

> a laser point defense system???



Who said that the nodes were small? Maybe the 'transmissions' are at a very

low frequency, and so have a large wavelength? It is quite possible to have

an anti-node kilometers or even hundreds of kilometers across; this makes

them easy to aim.





Sure wish we have nuclear dampers in 2300AD; those detonation lasers sure

are deadly!



- - -- 

C. Harald Koch  VE3TLA                Alias Research, Inc., Toronto ON Canada

chk%alias@csri.utoronto.ca      chk@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu      chk@chk.mef.org

"I think you curdled my Pepsi!"-Gerry Smit, in response to sickening cuteness





------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2094

Date: Tue, 22 Jan 91 10:07:02 CST

From: mcknight@tusun2.mcs.utulsa.edu (Chuck McKnight - Law)

Subject: Other nets





If anyone is interested, there is an amateur network that does nothing but

RPGs.  It currently has a PBEM game in Traveller in progress, as well as

various other RPG systems (such as GURPS, Hero Systems, etc.).  If anyone

has any interest in finding out more about Vervan Net, please send email and

I'll forward the location of the various access points across the county.

VervanNet has recently connected to a similar network in Europe and is

working (if they haven't already succeeded) on connecting to Australia.



Chuck McKnight

mcknight@tusun2.mcs.utulsa.edu

    - or -

mcknight@vax1.utulsa.edu



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2095

Date:     Wed, 23 Jan 91 15:19:47 EST

From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>

Subject:  How to Handle this?



Since we have been having discussions about how to handle various situations

as a gamemaster, let me throw out a question to the crowd.  This is inspired

by a never run 2300AD character, but the same would apply to a similar 

Traveller situation.  Suppose we have a character who is a journalist.

In 2300AD he/she would have a high writing and perhaps imaging skill.  In

Traveller, you might have to wing it, but let's assume that we are talking

about a character with a high education and intelligence, and that we will

use those to modify any task die rolls.  Clearly, such a character could,

with the proper selection of other skills, be an asset to a group without

regard to the journalism.  But suppose the player wishes to keep his character

in pocket money (or more) by selling their stories.  I see no reason in

particular why this should be role played out, especially if it was a routine

occurence.  (Ship lands, journalist sends files to his/her favorite publisher).

What would you do?  Set it as a task with a set payoff, with extra for

extraordinary success, less for failure?  Add modifiers if you deem the 

adventure to be "exciting" or newsworthy"?  How would you decide how big to

make the average payout?



What about other characters with skills that could be marketed freelance?

Or craftsmen who could build things while they whiled away the endless hours

in jumpspace?



Rob





------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2096

Subject: sector data (and stuff)

Date: Wed, 23 Jan 91 22:18:13 -0500

From: tom <tom@cis.udel.edu>



this is my first posting, so hello everyone.  [welcome aboard, tom, glad

to see you're getting right into the swing of things -- James] i've

looked at *lots* of stuff from the archive in the last two days... i was

wondering if there is any more official sector data out there besides

the 26 files in the archive.



i'm also looking for the subsector names for the sectors in machine

readable form, i have some of it in books & magazines but not all in one

place, let alone on computer. and a list of all possible values for the

allegiance field.



btw, if anyone is interested i have a c program that takes files of data

and outputs a color view of the stars in them. it uses a generic

graphic format that can be trivially converted to gif, X, and many

others.

- - --

Internet: tom@sol.cis.udel.edu         Uucp: ...{unidot,uunet}!udel!sol!tom



"Themes were useless; Destiny was here, and the foot pedals were bleeding."



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2097

From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>

Subject: PGMP/FGMP Fuel & Starship Fuel

Date: Wed, 23 Jan 91 21:17:04 PST



I've got two question which recent events in my MT campaign have prompted

me to solicit answers for.  Here they are.



1.  PGMP/FGMP ammo/powerpack costs.



  The Imperial Encyclopedia (pg. 72) says the PGMP, "consists of a power

  pack carried on the firer's back, the weapon itself, a flexible power

  link.  The power pack powers a laser ignition system in the weapon

  itself which heats hydrogen fuel to a plasma state.  The plasma is

  contained in the ignition chamber briefly and is then released through

  a magnetically focused field along the weapons' barrel.  The high

  initial velocity plasma jet is 2 centimeters in diameter, but it

  begins to dissipate immediately.  EACH POWER PACK HAS SUFFICIENT

  ENERGY TO DISCHARGE 40 PLASMA BOLTS BEFORE RECHARGING IS NECCESSARY.

  Each pull of the trigger discharges one plasma bolt."  [The emphasis

  is mine.]



  In the next paragraph, it goes on to specifically address the PGMP-13

  (which leads one to believe that the earlier discussion was directed

  towards the PGMP-12).  It says, "THE POWER PACK IS A SMALL FUSION

  REACTOR WITH EFFECTIVELY UNLIMITED FUEL FOR COMBAT PURPOSES (BUT IT

  REQUIRES PERIODIC REFUELING AND ROUTINE MAINTENANCE EVERY 24-36 HOURS,

  DEPENDING ON THE AMOUNT OF USE).  [Again, the emphasis is mine.]



  Then, on pg. 75, the following data is given:



        Weapon      TL             Price     Ammo Wt.  Ammo Price

        PGMP-12     12    ...     10,000 Cr.   3.0        2,500 Cr.

        PGMP-13     13    ...     65,000 Cr.   7.0       50,000 Cr.

        PGMP-14     14    ...    100,000 Cr.   1.6      250,000 Cr.

        FGMP-14     14    ...    100,000 Cr.   9.0       65,000 Cr.

        FGMP-15     15    ...    400,000 Cr.   2.0      300,000 Cr.

        FGMP-16     16    ...    500,000 Cr.   1.0      375,000 Cr.



  Well, that's it.  I'm totally confused.  The ammo wt. jumps all over

  the place.  And the price; does it refer to the hydrogen 'pellets'

  in the gun that actually get zapped by the laser, or does it refer

  to the hydrogen fuel in the power pack?  Based on articles in both

  the TDR Physics SIG and the HIWG (History of the Imperium Working

  Group), the 'hydrogen' in this case is some combination of deuterium

  and tritium (as opposed to the ol' vanilla protium which fuels star-

  ship power plants).



  Sooooo, in the words of Ricky Ricardo, "Somebody 'splain dis to me,

  please?"



2.  Fuel duration & multiple jumps by a starship.



  I have a design for a modified Beowulf-class Free Trader that has

  jump-2 and maneuver-2.  It burns up 405 Kl. of fuel per jump and

  has a total fuel capacity of 859 Kl.  It also has a duration of

  30/90 days (whateverthehell that means) according to the design

  rules in the Refs. Manual.  If I understand the rules correctly,

  that means that it can make one jump (jump-1 or jump-2, it doesn't

  matter 'cause the both burn 405 kl. of fuel, thanks to those

  mysteriously vanishing 'jump governors').  On the remaining 454

  Kl. of fuel, the ship can stay powered for 90 days in some sort

  of 'low-power mode (or '8-hour work days' as the Refs. Manual calls

  them).  This implies that the ship burns 5.0444 Kl. of fuel per day

  in that mode, right?



  Given those values, one can assume that for 2 weeks in jumpspace a

  ship would need 5.0444 x 14 days = 70.6222 Kl. of fuel, plus 405 x

  2 = 810 Kl. for the 2 jumps.  810 + 70.6222 = 880.622, which is only

  21.6222 Kl. more than my ship holds already.  By installing a small

  (say, 50 Kl.) auxillary tank in the cargo hold, this ship could

  ram-scoop a gas giant, jump-2 parsecs, and still have enough fuel

  to safely make a second emergency jump-2, right?



  I realize this completely ignores the other factors such as in-system

  transit time, etc.  It also doesn't address whether or not this low

  power consumption figure assumes the M-drives are going or not.

  However, I don't think the rules explicitly forbid this sort of

  action, do they?  All of this hinges on my understanding of the 30/90 

  duration figure, which is zip.  So somebody enlightening me, okay?



One possible interpretation of the 30/90 duration (mine :-)).



  The 90 day duration is max. duration if the M-drives are NEVER run.

  This gives use a life-support (et.al.) fuel usage of 5.0444 Kl./day.

  The 30 duration is max. duration if the M-drives are run CONSTANTLY.

  Since we know life support burns 5.0444 Kl./day, we know that life-

  support burns 151.3333 Kl. of fuel in 30 days.  This means that the

  remainder of the 454 Kl. (which is 302.6667 Kl.) is 30 days of con-

  sumption by the M-drives, which works out to 10.0889 Kl./day.  Now

  that we've got these 2 figures:

        M-drives ------- 10.0889 Kl./day

        life support ---  5.0444 Kl./day

  We can derive per hour consumptions and determine right to the

  credit how much it will cost to refuel at that next starport! :-)



        [The scene is L'sis (0409 Pretoria/Deneb), in Lorraine's Adult

         Entertainment & Electronics Repair.  Hassan and Nonny are

         browsing through the Holo-porn:]



         "Check this out.  Over here in the Zhodani section, there's

          one called _Debbie_does_Herself_!"



         "Uh-huh.  Oh wait, now *this* looks interesting.  In the

          Vargr section, there's an X-rated remake of some old

          2-D flick called _One_Hundred_and_One_Dalmatians_."



                        - Paraphrased from last weekend's MT session

Later,



        Mark F. Cook



USMail: User Interface Technical Support

        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation

        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330



INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com

          markc%hpcvss.cv.hp.com@relay.hp.com



------------------------------



End of TML Bundle

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From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)

Subject: TML Bundle #169: Table of Contents



-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------

2098  23-Jan-91 Mark F. Cook      "The Art of Snooping" Made Easy << In TML Dig

2099  24-Jan-91 Brian Hartsfield  Programs << I am looking for programs that wi

2100  25-Jan-91 woodsb@ecn.purdue Re: (2097) Starship Fuel << In message 2097, 

2101  25-Jan-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Robo Speed << <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.m

2102  25-Jan-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Duration << Rob the Vehicle MAven here, on th

2103  25-Jan-91 S94SERGIENKO%USUH 43 seconds into the future... << Or how fast 

2104  25-Jan-91 Dan Corrin        Re: Starship Fuel << > Date: Wed, 23 Jan 91 2

2105  25-Jan-91 Brian Hartsfield  lists << I have heard mention in some of the 

2106  25-Jan-91 "Robert S. Dean"  More Vehicles... << Only two this time...thes

2107  26-Jan-91 Mark F. Cook      Journalism: the "Real" story << Ah-HAH!! I kn

2108  26-Jan-91 George William He Partial Powering << I always wondered about t

2109  27-Jan-91 bonnevil@acc.stol Tactics of fractional power... << As long as 

2110  28-Jan-91 al646@cleveland.F New stuff and old stuff << Howdy, I just boug

2111  28-Jan-91 METLAY@vms.cis.pi Quick TDR note << The TDR lists are still act

2112  28-Jan-91 PHB100@PSUVM.PSU. Re: (2086) Re: (2081) Black Globes << First, 

2113  28-Jan-91 James T Perkins   Other TML mailing lists << The TML Topical ma

2114  28-Jan-91 James T Perkins   Atherton no longer carries TML Archives << Jo

2115  29-Jan-91 METLAY@vms.cis.pi A comment on the Flaming Eye book << I haven'

2116  29-Jan-91 James T Perkins   Richard is indisposed << Richard Johnson (PBE



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2098

From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>

Subject: "The Art of Snooping" Made Easy

Date: Wed, 23 Jan 91 22:27:37 PST



In TML Digest subject 2095, Rob Dean writes:



>                  ...  Suppose we have a character who is a journalist.

> In 2300AD he/she would have a high writing and perhaps imaging skill.  In

> Traveller, you might have to wing it, but let's assume that we are talking

> about a character with a high education and intelligence, and that we will

> use those to modify any task die rolls.  Clearly, such a character could,

> with the proper selection of other skills, be an asset to a group without

> regard to the journalism.  But suppose the player wishes to keep his

> character in pocket money (or more) by selling their stories.  I see no

> reason in particular why this should be role played out, especially if

> it was a routine occurence.  (Ship lands, journalist sends files to his/her

> favorite publisher).

> What would you do?  Set it as a task with a set payoff, with extra for

> extraordinary success, less for failure?  Add modifiers if you deem the 

> adventure to be "exciting" or newsworthy"?  How would you decide how big to

> make the average payout?



Well, speaking as something of an authority on Journalism in the Shattered

Imperium (:-)), I think it SHOULD be role-played out, at least if the

agency/individual the news article is being filed with is anything other

than the local X-boat office ("Send this to Regina, and make it snappy!")



When I originally created and ran Adrian Bishop (before the TML PBEM was

born), he was the focal character in the group.  My Ref. (Hi, Eric!) didn't

seem to have any touble either building potential new-related adventures,

or role-playing Stanley, my tight-fisted managing editor ("Four THOUSAND

credits for a riddled Holo-cam?!?  Why couldn't YOU just get shot, instead

of the equipment?")  When Adrian filed a story, it was always one of those

multi-month long expose's, usually involving the military, government, or

big business (well, who else is there?).  The pay-offs would range anywhere

from 20,000 to 50,000 Cr., with an additional fee for my "research staff

on retainer" (which referred to the rest of the party; if there's one

thing Adrian is good at, it's padding an expense account!).



However, if you really don't want to role-play the journalists work (which

seems like a terrible loss of adventure potential), then here are the

kinds of skills Adrian has (and which any good MT Journalist character

should have):

  Interview - Need I say more.

  Linguistics - At least one other major language: Vilani, Vargr(Gvegh or

                Aekhu), or Aslan (one of the Spinward dialects) would all

                be good choices if you operated in Corridor, Deneb, or the

                Marches.

  Communications - This skill covers the use of recording devices (Holo-cams,

                voice recorders, editors) and the occasional broadcast unit.

                I include editing because when an independent sells to a

                news service, the buyer usually wants both a finished story

                AND the raw footage.  That way, they can re-do portions they

                don't like, but the rest of the work is done for them.  If

                you just walk in with Mega-hours of raw holo-stock, all

                they'll offer you is the door.

  Streetwise - You never have too many "in's" with the underworld.

  Liaison - Just in case you get the opportunity to interview Archduke Norris.

                (Bare in mind that Liaison functions as Streetwise -1 and

                Admin -1, so a high Liaison skill will cover these other

                two skills just fine.)



As for determining how much a story should be worth, I'd figure out how

much money you want the character to end up with, and reverse-calculate

the fee (:-)).  Seriously, 15,000 - 20,000 Cr./per month spent on story

is probably not out of line for a top-flight investigative free-lance

journalist.  If he/she is allowed expenses, then reduce the number a bit.

If the story is about a spectacular incident (Refs. option), consider

raising the fee by D6 * 20%.  Here's the sort of task roll you might use.



        To sell an article to a periodical or news service:

        Difficult, Interview+Liaison, Int, 20 min (uncertain, safe)

        Referee: On normal failure, the publisher offers only 50%

        of the normal fee.  On an exceptional failure, the article

        is rejected outright.  On exceptional success, the fee is

        5% higher per point in excess of the normal success minimum.



But it's soooo much more fun to role-play!  There's nothing in this

whole, role-playing world better than running a alcoholic, womanizing,

drug-abusing, chain-smoking reporter hot on the trail of some dirt.

Especially if it's guaranteed to ruin somebody else's life!



                        "Fletch, I'd better have something to print

                         by 8 AM tomorrow morning!"

                        "Here Murray, [flips him off] print this."

                                                - Fletch

Later,



        Mark F. Cook



USMail: User Interface Technical Support

        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation

        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330



INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com

          markc%hpcvss.cv.hp.com@relay.hp.com



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2099

Date: Thu, 24 Jan 91 18:31:57 CST

From: Brian Hartsfield <bh@eng.auburn.edu>

Subject: Programs



I am looking for programs that will help with Megatraveller such as character/

world/planet generation, keeping a library of all the sectors and subsectors

and planets and planet maps and info and stuff like that. If anybody knows of

any such programs, send me e-mail. I will summerize replies and post them

back here.  Please include (if you know it) where the program can get gotten

from.  Thanks in advance.  I don't care if it is commerical or shareware, 

through shareware would be preferred.



Brian Hartsfield



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2100

From: woodsb@ecn.purdue.edu (Brent L. Woods)

Subject: Re: (2097) Starship Fuel

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 91 1:20:53 EST





 In message 2097, markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com (Mark F. Cook) writes:

 >

 >2.  Fuel duration & multiple jumps by a starship.

 >

 >  I have a design for a modified Beowulf-class Free Trader that has

 >  jump-2 and maneuver-2.  It burns up 405 Kl. of fuel per jump and

 >  has a total fuel capacity of 859 Kl.  It also has a duration of

 >  30/90 days (whateverthehell that means) according to the design

 >  rules in the Refs. Manual.  If I understand the rules correctly,

 >  that means that it can make one jump (jump-1 or jump-2, it doesn't

 >  matter 'cause the both burn 405 kl. of fuel, thanks to those

 >  mysteriously vanishing 'jump governors').  On the remaining 454

 >  Kl. of fuel, the ship can stay powered for 90 days in some sort

 >  of 'low-power mode (or '8-hour work days' as the Refs. Manual calls

 >  them).  This implies that the ship burns 5.0444 Kl. of fuel per day

 >  in that mode, right?



     Wait a minute...  I don't think so.  I always interpreted that to

mean "30 days, or 90 eight-hour shifts, whichever you prefer."  Meaning

that you use up the power plant fuel in 30 days, no more, no less, no

ups, no extras.  After all, the damn' thing has to run continuously

while the ship's in space.  I don't see any way around that, unless you

want to breathe stale air while floating in darkness (not *my* idea of

a fun recreational activity).



     I've also never liked the idea that the jump drive burns the same

amount of fuel, no matter what distance.  If you only go half the rated

max distance of your drive, you should only burn half your fuel.  But

that's just my prejudice...  ;-)





- - --

     Brent



INTERNET:  woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu

USNAIL:  2818 S. Sunrise Dr.  /  New Palestine, IN  46163

PHONE:  +1 (317) 861-4844 (voice)





------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2101

From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se

Subject: Re: Robo Speed

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 91 8:12:03 MET



<rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil> Robert S. Dean wrote:

> Anyway, if you sent these robots out on the roads or other trafficways by

> themselves, they could then use their speed effectively.



  If robots are present to some degree on a world, there is bound to be a

speedlimit for pedestrian traffic, probably around 10-20kph as an absolute

maximum.



  Maximum *possible* speed indoors would probably be determined with dexterity

in mind for the non-thrust driven robots.



> I know using the

> P/W calculations on wheeled/tracked/legged robots will tend to make them

> fast because they need a lot (comparatively) of power to run peripherals,



  The big trouble is that even now, I had divided the power output by 28.

Otherwise, even the legged robots would have had speeds reduced only by

streamlining.



> but there is really no reason to design an indoor grav robot with more than

> a nominal amount of excess thrust (.1G or so?).  So some of this could be

> covered in the design section without having to do a separate table for them.



  There is two things though, that requires high thrust in grav-robots. The

first is if they are supposed to work on different worlds. I don't think that a

robot with 0.1 excess gees at one standard gravity could even lift it's own

weight on a UWP size A world. The second is that for some robots (like the XT-3)

a large thrust is needed to enable it to carry heavy parts and machinery.

Actually I feel that the thrust of the XT-3 is inadequate, since the thrust

cannot support as much weight as the robot can possibly lift (about 600kg).



> Rob Dean



- - -bertil-

- - -- 

>From the foolfile:

"The Baltic states are not occupied"  -  Swedish Foreign Minister Sten Andersson



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2102

Date:     Fri, 25 Jan 91 8:52:58 EST

From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>

Subject:  Duration



Rob the Vehicle MAven here, on the subject of duration:



As written the second duration number 30/*90* is functionally meaningless for

starships.  For vehicles it makes sense because most vehicles are not intended 

to be operated for more than 8 hrs a day due to driver fatigue.  So to pull an

example out of the hat, a long distance truck with a duration of 2/6 could be

driven across the U.S. for 6 8 hour shifts before requiring refueling, assuming

that it is sitting in a parking lot, shut off, for the remaining time.  A 

starship can't really be parked with the engine turned off very often (except

at a starport, and even then in the Shattered Imperium I'd have it running 

at low power to allow a warm start if I needed it.)  



A recent issue of Traveller's Digest legitimized the concept of running your

starship at fractional power, with a proportional fractional fuel consumption.

If you look at any of my high-energy weapon large starship designs (I don't

think the dropship counts), you'll find a note about how much power is required

in combat versus how much is required in "running mode".  *I* usually calculate

the running power as full maneuver power plus full life support power.  If you

wanted to run your ship at the absolute minimum power, I'd call it the amount

needed for full life support power, most of the time...but even that could 

be reduced if you were willing to cut the grav plates (you wouldn't need

inertial compensators if you weren't accelerating).  Unless you precalculate

these things in the design phase, or maintain your complete design sheets,

figuring these things out on the fly will be annoying.  



Does anyone else have thoughts on how much power you really require in jump

space?  Do you need the inertial compensators?  Any maneuver power??  I would

not think so.



Rob





------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2103

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 91 09:15 EDT

From: S94SERGIENKO%USUHSB.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Subject: 43 seconds into the future...



Or how fast you have to be in front of Mark to successfully run a

journalistic character in your campaign.



Frankly, I feel that if you want to make money as a journalist, you have to

go out looking for stories.  Look where CNN sends their top flight people,

to Baghdad, not John Day, Oregon.  So, to make a character work as a

journalist he has too have some control over where the party is going.

Which implies that it should be role-played.



When Mark was running Adrian in my universe,  I had to organize

scenarios with other players in mind, lest they be dominated by Mark's

desire to seek out new highs and perversities.  On the other hand there

had to be a degree of newsworthiness in them, so that Adrian could feed

the masses (and his pocketbook).



It also helps to have an image of what INN (the Imperium News

Network) is all about and how immensely huge an interstellar news

agency is.  How I picture it is thousands of independent news tapers

following their journalistic instincts handled by managers with a strong

sense of monetary control and an idea of what would sell.  In addition,

INN provides technical support and distribution.  I picture technical

support being everything from editing services to mercenaries.  INN rates

as just below a megacorp in my campaign.



The task rolls that Mark layed out were pretty accurate on how Adrian

sold his stories (except I was making the rolls).  With role-playing one has

to also include a BS modifier for the player's ability to sell the story to his

manager.



Adrian, of course, represents the top of the line independent news-taper,

easily averaging Cr 30,000 a month plus expenses.  INN can make billions

of credits off of his one hour exposes' syndicated to the many planets of

the region of interest.



If a character was just starting out, he would probably be happy to make Cr

1000 to Cr 2000 per month, selling most stories to local news agencies.



> Well, speaking as something of an authority on Journalism in the

> Shattered Imperium (:-))



Yellow Journalism, of course :-).  Adrian's one disappointment with the

inability to have FTL communication was that he couldn't have an

Imperium wide hook-up:

"This is Adrian Bishop, coming to you live and direct, from Archduke

Norris' private pleasure palace, payed for by Children of the Spinward

Marches Fund..."



eric sergienko

s94sergienko%usuhsb.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu

uniformed services university of the health sciences

(301) 585-1973





------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2104

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 91 11:32:07 EST

From: Dan Corrin <dan@engrg.uwo.ca>

Subject: Re: Starship Fuel



> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 91 21:17:04 PST

> From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>

> 

> 2.  Fuel duration & multiple jumps by a starship.

> 

>   I have a design for a modified Beowulf-class Free Trader that has

>   jump-2 and maneuver-2.  It burns up 405 Kl. of fuel per jump and

>   has a total fuel capacity of 859 Kl.  It also has a duration of

>   30/90 days (whateverthehell that means) according to the design

>   rules in the Refs. Manual.  If I understand the rules correctly,

>   that means that it can make one jump (jump-1 or jump-2, it doesn't

>   matter 'cause the both burn 405 kl. of fuel, thanks to those

>   mysteriously vanishing 'jump governors').  On the remaining 454

>   Kl. of fuel, the ship can stay powered for 90 days in some sort

>   of 'low-power mode (or '8-hour work days' as the Refs. Manual calls

>   them).  This implies that the ship burns 5.0444 Kl. of fuel per day

>   in that mode, right?

> 



I don't recall what the rulebook says about multiple jumps etc and the

govenor problem, but if you notice the fuel required for a jump is

proportional to the numer of jump units required for the drive. (I think

62.5klxnumber of jump units). But examine the following table (from memory):



	Jump #		1  2  3  4  5  6

	100T Jump Units 2  3  4  5  6  7

	

You'll note that it doesn't take twice as much fuel to go jump 2 as it does

to go jump 1 (unlike the old traveller rules). This is the main reason

why a jump-2 ship can't go J-1 and J-1. In my campaign I allow the players

to use their fuel in Jump Fuel Units (JFU). I rate their tanks in JFU, and

then they can subtract the amount they use for a jump [That is J-n requires

n+1 JFU]. Thus your free trader with 810 kl of tanks would have 6 JFU, which

is enough for 2xJ-2 or 3xJ-1. I presume that the designers didn't want to

confuse the players with this sort of partial fuel useage.



>  [...]

>   I realize this completely ignores the other factors such as in-system

>   transit time, etc.  It also doesn't address whether or not this low

>   power consumption figure assumes the M-drives are going or not.

>   However, I don't think the rules explicitly forbid this sort of

>   action, do they?  All of this hinges on my understanding of the 30/90 

>   duration figure, which is zip.  So somebody enlightening me, okay?

> 



The 30/90 duration has no deep understanding. The power plant is computed

for the requirements of the ship, and you provide fuel for n days of 

continuous output at 100% power. The 3xn duration assumes that the ship

is not being manned around the clock, but only 8 hours per day.



There are two points to be made here, first the only states that the

power plant can have (at least those mentioned in the rules) is 100%, idle

and off. The presence of the idle state (mentioned with vehicle plants, I 

belive in the skills section) is so that you don't have to cold start the

engine every time. However I would think that if the plant can run at idle

(ie. keep the fusion reaction, and magnetic bottle or whatever) it can run

at any intermediate state.



The longer duration assumes 8 hours of 100% output followed by 16 hours of

idle. This would mean no life support, sensors, computer and especially

gravity. However during those 8 hours of activity everyhting is not running

so things can average out. I for one am not satisifed with this type of

explanation however.



> One possible interpretation of the 30/90 duration (mine :-)).

> 

>   The 90 day duration is max. duration if the M-drives are NEVER run.

>   This gives use a life-support (et.al.) fuel usage of 5.0444 Kl./day.

>   The 30 duration is max. duration if the M-drives are run CONSTANTLY.

>   Since we know life support burns 5.0444 Kl./day, we know that life-

>   support burns 151.3333 Kl. of fuel in 30 days.  This means that the

>   remainder of the 454 Kl. (which is 302.6667 Kl.) is 30 days of con-

>   sumption by the M-drives, which works out to 10.0889 Kl./day.  Now

>   that we've got these 2 figures:

>         M-drives ------- 10.0889 Kl./day

>         life support ---  5.0444 Kl./day

>   We can derive per hour consumptions and determine right to the

>   credit how much it will cost to refuel at that next starport! :-)

> 



This is similar to the way I would implement it. However you are

still assuming that the power plant can be set to variable output. One

way to avoid making this assumption is to install multiple power plants

as long as each is > 14kl (252Mw at tech 15?) there is no degridation

of power output. (This of course flaunts the only one ship system at

a time in operation rule).



Consider the power consuming devices:

	Maneuver (high)

	Agility (very high if present)

	avionics/communications/sensors (low)

	Weapons (very high)

	Screens (very high)

	Gravity/Compensators (high)

	life support (low)

	Computers (low)

	misc (berths, purifier) (low)

If you were to collect the correct things together and assign them their

own power plant then the fuel could last much longer by only using the

appropriate power plants at the correct time.

ie. Electonics, life sppt, misc, and Gravity on one plant, maneuver

on another, and weapons, screens and agility on a third (assuming they

meet the 14kl requirement). Then the fuel could be really conserved

by only running the life sppt et al, somewhat conserved when maneuvering

as well, and with the combat power plant you probably won't be concerned

with your fuel consumption. Note that it takes some time to bring a plant

up from idle, and a military ship that is trying to power up while under

attack would be to say the least under a disadvantage.



Consider the following fusion plants at TL 15. one 24kl, two 12kl, 

four 6kl and eight 3kl plants. Each set would draw the same amount of

fuel from the tanks, but consider the power output:

The 24kl  generates 1*24*6*3   = 432Mw

The 2x12kl generate 2*12*6*2   = 288Mw

the 4x6kl  generate 4* 6*6*1.5 = 216Mw

the 8x3kl  generate 8* 3*6*1   = 144Mw



Thus it probably won't save fuel substituting the smaller plants for a 

single large one. I don't know why the same fuel would generate such a 

conflicting power output, but perhaps the larger plant if run at 50% 

output would require 75% of the fuel or so. Ie the fuel to power output 

would not be linear, which is why they don't mention power level settings 

for the plants.

	

					-Dan



Dan Corrin, System Manager, Mechanical Engineering, UWO, London, Ontario

TML/CZ FTP site coordinator: dan@engrg.uwo.ca ...!watmath!julian!engrg!dan



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2105

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 91 14:18:46 CST

From: Brian Hartsfield <bh@eng.auburn.edu>

Subject: lists



I have heard mention in some of the messages in here about other mailing

lists that have to do with Traveller.  Could somebody post a list of all

these other mailing lists if they exist (if I am wrong and there arn't

any more then ignrore this message) and how to subscribe to them?



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2106

Date:     Fri, 25 Jan 91 16:52:00 EST

From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>

Subject:  More Vehicles...



Only two this time...these are in response to a request for cheap grav cargo

carriers in the military campaign.



Rob

- - --------------------------------------------------------------------------





Bishop Grav Carrier TL10



     The Bishop is intended as a medium grav vehicle suitable for cargo 

transport at fairly high speeds.  



  CraftID: Bishop Grav Carrier, TL10, MCr1.62

     Hull: 6/14, Disp=6, Conf=4SL, Armor=8E, Loaded=93.9t,

           Unloaded=35.2t

    Power: 1/2, Fusion=18MW, Dur=10/30

     Loco: 1/2, Std Grav=170t, TopSpeed=960kph, Cruise=720kph,

           NOE=140kph, MaxAccel=0.81G

     Comm: Radio=Regional(500km)

  Sensors: 2*Headlights, Radar=VDist, ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff

      Off: Hardpoints=1

      Def: -

  Control: Comp0*2, DynLink*35

    Accom: Seats=Adequate*2, Env=basic env, basic ls

    Other: Fuel=4.32kl, Cargo=58.4kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate



Ox Cargo Air Raft TL10



     The Ox is intended as a light grav vehicle suitable for cargo transport 

at fairly high speeds.  It is not equipped with life support systems, and is 

powered by a hydrocarbon engine.



  CraftID: Ox Cargo Air Raft, TL10, Cr226,000

     Hull: 4/9, Disp=4, Conf=4SL, Armor=4E, Loaded=40.95t,

           Unloaded=11.75t

    Power: 1/2, MHD Turbine=6MW, Dur=16hrs

     Loco: 1/2, Std Grav=60t, TopSpeed=540kph, Cruise=405kph,

           NOE=135kph, MaxAccel=0.46G

     Comm: Radio=Regional(500km)

  Sensors: 2*Headlights, Radar=VDist, ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff

      Off: Hardpoints=1

      Def: -

  Control: Elec*44

    Accom: Seats=Cramped*4, Env=basic env

    Other: Fuel=4.2kl, Cargo=29kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2107

From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>

Subject: Journalism: the "Real" story

Date: Sat, 26 Jan 91 0:32:18 PST



Ah-HAH!!  I knew if I looked long enough, I'd find it.  In issue #27 of

Challenge ("Back before you were born, remember kids?"), there's a great

article on "Journalism and the Stars" by Anders Blixt.  It describes a

complete new "extended generation" charaction class, the journalist (natch).

It also describes the new task "Journalism", which is detailed as follows:



"Journalism: This new skill is the ability to make good saleable material,

both with text and pictures.  When a free-lance journalist wants to sell

a story, he must roll 2D 11+ (DM journalistic skill and fame).  He is paid

fame * Cr.80/day of production (double if the material was gathered in

dangerous conditions)."



BTW, the "fame" mentioned here is something that a journalist character

accumulates during the course of character creation (like promotions for

a military character).  A high fame also provides a positive DM on mustering

out benefits.



Given the above "fee formula", I figure Adrian Bishop would rate about a

Journalism-5, even though he didn't actually have that specific skill.



Eric Sergienko writes:



> > Well, speaking as something of an authority on Journalism in the

> > Shattered Imperium (:-))

> 

> Yellow Journalism, of course :-).  Adrian's one disappointment with

> the inability to have FTL communication was that he couldn't have an

> Imperium wide hook-up:

> "This is Adrian Bishop, coming to you live and direct, from Archduke

> Norris' private pleasure palace, payed for by Children of the Spinward

> Marches Fund..."



True, true.  Just once, I wanted to look straight into my holo-cam, knowing

that all of the Imperium behind the claw was watching, and say, "Good evening.

I'm Chevy Chase and you're not." :-)



Actually, I had as much fun running Adrian in Eric's campaign then as I'm

having now, running him in Richard's PBEM game.  He met the rest of his

travelling companions during a little brush war on a mid-TL, semi-developed

backwater world out in the boonies.  He promptly dragged the entire group

to Capital, and then back out into the middle of a belter mining dispute.

He surrounded himself with disreputable merchant traders, amnesiac criminals,

disbarred, drug-abusing doctors, and other indispensable journalistic

sidekicks.  And you know something?  He hasn't changed at all.  He's still

the same old hyper, moody, chemically-dependent, social-climbing, cowardly,

strutting, muck-racking reporter today, and still likely to dive behind the

nearest crowd of women and children when the small-arms fire starts.  Than

is, as long as they don't block his holo-shots of the carnage. :-)



.. And on an entirely different note, Rob Dean writes:



> Only two this time...these are in response to a request for cheap grav cargo

> carriers in the military campaign.

>               .

>               .

>               .

> Bishop Grav Carrier TL10

> 

>      The Bishop is intended as a medium grav vehicle suitable for cargo 

> transport at fairly high speeds.  



CHEAP!?!  Sleazy maybe, but cheap?  Never!!  I don't know whether I should

be insulted or flattered.  Waitaminute, this smell's like a HEADLINE!!

I can just see it now,... "This is Adrian Bishop, coming to you live and

direct, from the Vincennes Vehicle Bazaar.  Tonight, we're going behind the

scenes of the biggest cut-rate grav vehicle swindle in years..." :-)



                        "Boy, those Sword-worlders really stick it to you!"

                                - another MT "pointed" pronouncement.

        Mark F. Cook



USMail: User Interface Technical Support

        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation

        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330



INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com

          markc%hpcvss.cv.hp.com@relay.hp.com



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2108

Date: Sat, 26 Jan 91 12:49:49 -0900

From: George William Herbert <gwh@soda.Berkeley.EDU>

Subject: Partial Powering





I always wondered about that; in my designs, I often solved the problem by

installing a second (backup) smaller plant, sized for the Life Support + 

Electronics + about Maneuver-1 power.  Thus, higher performance ships didn't

eat full fuel...  though this idea doesn't scale well to ships smaller than

200 tons.



and Re: Jump Fuel

	There was origionally (long long ago) in the ship operations rules

something that said that the ship used all its jump fuel no matter the range.

At some point, the concept of a Jump Govenor was introduced; something that let

the ship burn only the jump fuel for the actual distance being jumped... neither

of those concepts made it as far as MegaTraveller.  IMHO; there is now a tacit

assumption in the craft rules that a Jump Govenor is installed, and you will

only burn the fuel for the distance you are travelling.  Though it ought to

be brought up with Marc Miller one of these days...



- - -george william herbert

gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2109

Date: Sun, 27 Jan 91 21:12:07 -0600

From: bonnevil@acc.stolaf.edu

Subject: Tactics of fractional power...





As long as we're talking about fractional power output....



Apparently, it is possible to run a power plant at a greatly reduced

level.  In the MT Referee Manual, there is a sidebar somewhere that

mentions a maneouver invented by a Terran admiral involving tuning down

the output of his ship's fusion reactor.  Enemy vessels would detect

emissions indicating a smaller, less powerful ship than was actually

present, and close to attack.  The Terran ship would then put the plant

back on full power, and wreak havoc on the unsuspecting and outgunned

enemy.  The great risk of this tactic was that the attempt *quickly*

change the power output of the fusion reactor ran the risk of making

it dummy out and either shut down or remain at the decreased level,

turning the tables on the unfortunate Terrans.  When it worked, it

was a devastating tactic, however.



I think that the roll required was on the order of a hasty warm restart

attempt in terms of the task used.



- - --Steve



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2110

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 91 08:23:40 -0500

From: al646@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (T. L. Hayes)

Subject: New stuff and old stuff









Howdy,



I just bought a copy of the Flaming Eye Campaign Sourcebook.  I haven't had

time to read it in detail yet but it looks pretty good.  There are actually

two compaigns in the Cinematic Nugget format.  The first is called Search and

Rescue.  It deals with the "...extraction of an Imperial intelligence agent

from the restored Vilani empire...".  The second campaign is called Gamgilebo

Incident and is about "...the search for two missing starships and their

crews...".  This book is designed to be used with the Vilani and Vargar

reference book and you must have that book available to use these campaignes

(or so it says).



The book also include the floor plans (but as far as I can tell no write up)

for a Type A2 Far Trader, the Garu Class.  There are a number of World Data

Sheets like those in Knightfall as well.



I was in contact with the Weekend Warrior recently and asked about a copy of

Striker.  I was shocked to discover that the purchase price was $50.  It

is my understanding that some (most?) of Striker's systems (or at least the

ideas) went into MegaTraveller, is there really a reason for me to buy a copy

or is everything already in the MegaTraveller products I already own?  This 

goes beyond having a copy just for the sake of having a copy.  I want to 

know if there is enough stuff in Striker that is not in or different from

MT to justify (to my wife) buying something for $50.  Could those of you

with a copy of Striker (or those of you familiar with it) please comment.



I'm at home on my PC so I don't have access to my copies of the recent posts

but I remember reading one in which someone asked about a program to generate

NPC's (I think).  I have one that you specifiy the number, race, and service

and it generate NPC's and prints them to the screen.  The race and/or the

service can be randomly selected by the program as well.  Now for the 

strings...I am not (yet) a C programmer and this program was written to help

me learn C.  As far as I can tell it works and works correctly but I will

not vouch for the appearence of the code or its style.  I am certain there

are better ways to implement things but as I said it works and I am learning

C so my goals are being met.  The next problem is there are races not in

standard Traveller (my own basically) but these can easily be removed.  The

last problem is not all of the 18(?) possible services are installed.  At the

moment I think it does Army, Navy, Marines, Scouts, Belter, Pirate, Rogue,

and Merchant.  The program was written so that the extra services can be

easily added, I just haven't had time lately to work on it.  If depite all

this anyone is interested in obtaining a copy of what I have, I'd be happy

to send it to you.



Later,

TLH



- - --

T.L.Hayes                  |

MIT/Lincoln Laboratory     |  Personal Mail: hayes@ll.mit.edu

Lexington, MA              |  General Mail : al646@cleveland.Freenet.Edu



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2111

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 91 10:03 EDT

From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu

Subject: Quick TDR note





The TDR lists are still active and running-- we have a new Medical

skill cascade system for people who wonder why veteranarians and

neuropsychopharmacologists both have Medical-3 and nothing else. Work

is proceeding (slowly) on a new Trade system, the combat system is

in revision and alternatives are being presented, we have a trial 

ship-combat system waiting to be playtested, and the new ship design

system will include power plants that make sense, maneuver drives

and antigrav units that make sense (Thruster plates may well take a

hike), and Jump drives that make sense (half the Jump, half the fuel,

nyah nyah nyah). The lists can be subscribed to through Mark Cook--

keep those discussions going, people!



metlay



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2112

Date:    Mon, 28 Jan 91 12:51 EST

From: PHB100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU

Subject: Re: (2086) Re: (2081) Black Globes



First, let me say that I am not a physics-type, so don't blame me if I'm all

wet...(notice how I get the disclaimer in at the beginning?  :)   Someone

posted a note about something (see how scientifically specific I can be? ) to

which James (hi James) inserted a comment that has jogged my memory...

>

>[Right on, in Einsteinian General Relativity, all frames of reference

>are valid - there is no "master" frame of reference.  The Universe's

>rules apparently hold true for all observers, and there is no underlying

>"grid" or "mesh" to the Universe that is special or fixed.  All events

>in the Universe happen relative to each other.  Nonetheless, there are

>several holes in EGR in Traveller.  Perhaps there is a non-relativistic

>universal frame of reference available through a small oversight in

>Einsteinian theory.  How else can you suspend your disbelief that matter

>can travel faster than light? That reactionless thrusters can function?

 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>How many holes and hand-waving you permit in your campaign is a function

>of the Player's and Ref's ability to suspend their disbelief.  -- James]

>

Perhaps you physics types can point out the error of my ways?  The thing that's

been bugging me concerns the underlined comment above...



I seem to recall hearing (or reading) that General Relativity doesn't forbid

matter moving at FTL speeds, it only forbids matter travelling AT the speed of

light, since this would involve infinite mass.  Yes or no?



If true, then there may be the equivalent of a tunnelling diode for velocity (a

tunnelling diode, as I understand it, lets electrons 'tunnel' through a barrier

essentially they "stop" existing on one side and "start" existing on the other)

This would let your ship "stop" existing at c-x meters/sec and "start" existing

at c+x m/s.  Or is this wrong also?



- - - ------------------------------------------

The following discussion is excerpted from The Physics of Tunnelling Velocities

                                           

by Paul Baughman,  J-O-A-T



   ...



Applying energy to the Zuchai crystal web in the hull produces an oscillating,

structured energy field of the Zotorr type.  This oscillation engages the

Tunnelling Velocity Effect (TVE) which transposes the STL velocity of the

enclosed object (the ship) to the FTL velocity corresponding to one of the

prime energy states.



The Prime Energy States (PES) are superluminal energy states similar to the

electron energy states of classical Quantum Mechanics.  An object in Hyperspace

can only occupy one of these energy states.  If an amount of energy is supplied

to the Zuchai web that does not corespond exactly to one of the PES, then the

next lowest PES is entered and the excess energy is radiated to the

surroundings as gravitons.



Only six Prime Energy States are known to our present technology.  When energy

is applied corresponding to what should be the seventh, only the sixth state is

entered.  The most popular theory advanced to date is that successive energy

states do not follow the same distribution curve for energy level.  That is,

while the first six states follow a linear distribution curve, the next states

may follow a parabolic or other curve.  It must be emphasized that currently

there is no evidence either for or against this theory.  Many researchers have

attempted to find the next PES (popularly known as jump-7), but no matter how

much energy is supplied (and some truly staggering amounts have been tried)

only PES levels one through six have been identified.



As a footnote to this discussion, in 1093 Dr. Hans Zarkov of the University of

Regina, was following a promising line of research when he vanished with his

leased research ship, _Daisy_May_ .  Eyewitness accounts following the

investigation, claimed that Dr. Zarkov loaded several crates of equipment on

board his ship, then spent five days aboard before requesting clearance for a

test flight and jumping out-system.  The Daisy May and Dr. Zarkov were never

seen again.  The conclusion made by the investigating committee was that Dr.

Zarkov attempted to put his theories into action and destroyed himself and his

ship in the process.  Unfortunately, the notes Dr. Zarkov left behind were

only of the most general in nature.  As a consequence, no one really knows

whether Dr. Zarkov broke the jump-6 barrier or not.



   ...



- - -------

In the dark no one can hear the color of your eyes.

Disclaimer:  This is me.  Do I sound like anyone else?



Paul Baughman          PHB100@psuvm.bitnet



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2113

Subject: Other TML mailing lists

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 91 14:43:01 PST

From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>





The TML Topical mailing lists are:



Play-by-email:			richard@agora.rain.com (Richard Johnson)



	Play-by-email is an ongoing adventure with about 35 players.

	Players are crewmembers aboard the ISR Alcyon, on an exploration

	mission to explore a just-discovered Ringworld.



Computer-aided Traveller:	richard@agora.rain.com (Richard Johnson)

				dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin)



	CAT is a list to discuss computer programs as an aid to

	Traveller RPG gaming.  Submission address is cat@engrg.uwo.ca.



Traveller Done Right:		tdr_admin@hpcvss.cv.hp.com

				(Mark F Cook & metlay)



	TDR is a whole bunch of sublists discussing improvements to

	Traveller game rules (based on MegaTraveller).  These lists are

	for DEVOTED contributors only.  Metlay occasionally posts status

	reports on TDR happenings.



Defunct topical lists are the Trade and Commerce digest and the Star

System Database digest.



James

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc

traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA

uunet!metolius.wr.tek.com!traveller-request  "Load Auto/Evade, Beowulf!"



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2114

Subject: Atherton no longer carries TML Archives

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 91 15:40:29 PST

From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>





Josh Levy tells me that the uucp mail TML archive server at atherton is

no longer keeping TML archives.  Please strike mention of the TML

archive server that he was supporting.  The ftp archive service at

sunbane.engnrg.uwo.ca run by Dan Corrin is still in high gear, though,

to the best of my knowledge.



James



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2115

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 91 10:24 EDT

From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu

Subject: A comment on the Flaming Eye book





I haven't bought a copy yet, but have glanced at it briefly-- there is

one very interesting artistic "slip" that may or may not be deliberate.

One of the Vargr characters is consistently drawn much larger than a

normal human, to say nothing of a normal Vargr... unusual for the species,

and (before the recent publication of V+V) I would have even said impossible.



The obvious explanation is that this Vargr is of the massive Urzaeng breed,

but that begs the question: which came first, the mention of the Urzaeng

in the V+V book or the art in the Flaming Eye? Don't get me wrong, I think

that the representation of the varied subspecies is really wonderful, but

I just had this perverse vision of a conversation at DGP....



"Look at these great art layouts for the Flaming Eye book!"



"Yeah, this is really good stuff-- urk! Look at the size of that Vargr! We

can't use these-- the continuity hounds would eat us alive!"



"Oh, damn, you're right-- Hey, I just had a thought! Why not add a line about

a really rare breed of giant Vargr to the V+V book before it goes to press?"



Nah. Too silly. Also out of line with my view of DGP, which is of a very

meticulous and careful bunch of people who dislike obfuscation (except where

justifying thruster plates and constant fuel consumption irrespective of

Jump distance). |->



Just babbling,

metlay



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2116

Subject: Richard is indisposed

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 91 15:50:20 PST

From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>





Richard Johnson (PBEM Referee and CAT coordinator) has been having

trouble getting mail out on the network, but has been recieving your

mail just fine! I think we should all do him a favor and stop sending

him mail until he tells us that he can get mail out again.



Note from Richard (via telephone relay): it's time time for the Aslan to

wake up.  (The CAT *meow* coordinator says so :-).





James

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc

traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA

uunet!metolius.wr.tek.com!traveller-request  "Load Auto/Evade, Beowulf!"



------------------------------



End of TML Bundle

*****************



From jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com Tue Feb 12 16:40:17 1991

Received: from RELAY.CS.NET by engrg.uwo.ca;

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To: Dan Corrin <dan%engrg.uwo.ca@RELAY.CS.NET>

Subject: TML Bundle #170: Msgs 2117-2137

Reply-To: TML Administrator <traveller-request%metolius.wr.tek.com@RELAY.CS.NET>

Precedence: bulk

Date: Tue, 12 Feb 91 12:17:00 PST

From: James T Perkins <jamesp%metolius.wr.tek.com@RELAY.CS.NET>

Status: RO





TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,

maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.



------------------------------------------------------------



Date: Tue Feb 12 12:16:55 PST 1991

From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)

Subject: TML Bundle #170: Table of Contents



-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------

2117  30-Jan-91 Dan Corrin        FTP archive update << The number of the FTP s

2118  30-Jan-91 wilber%nunki.usc. My Account Will Dissappear << Since I've grad

2119  31-Jan-91 CHOINSKI@s35.prim  << - -======================================

2120  01-Feb-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Flaming Eye << I acquired the Flaming Eye Sou

2121  01-Feb-91 "Robert S. Dean"  The Latest Vehicles << Since there has not be

2122  02-Feb-91 wilson m liaw     New MegaTraveller Adventure << There is suppo

2123  02-Feb-91 Dan Corrin        100 diameter jump point. << The 100 planetary

2124  03-Feb-91 Brian Hartsfield  GMing << I have never GMed a Megatravller gam

2125  04-Feb-91 Arthur Green      100 diameter limit << >From: Dan Corrin <dan@

2126  04-Feb-91 True Friends Chan trade wagging the dog (old message) << RE: Wh

2127  07-Feb-91 wilson m liaw     DGP Moves!! << DGP HAS MOVED FROM IDAHO TO OR

2128  07-Feb-91 wilson m liaw     MegaTraveller II << The following is a press 

2129  08-Feb-91 James T Perkins   Where is everyone? << The only postings I've 

2130  08-Feb-91 salamon@sdbio2.UC Sector data format???? << I downloaded the se

2131  09-Feb-91 Andreas Bjorklind DGPs new game: A.I. (tm) << Sorry about this 

2132  09-Feb-91 agora.rain.com!ca Re: 2097 Fuel Duration << In message 2097, ma

2133  09-Feb-91 agora.rain.com!ca Re: 2125 100 Diameter Limit << >From: Arthur 

2134  09-Feb-91 agora.rain.com!ca Re: 2126 Trade and Commerce Debate << >From: 

2135  09-Feb-91 agora.rain.com!ca Re: 2097, Fuel Duration << - -- +------------

2136  09-Feb-91 Mark F. Cook      Re: Sector data format???? << In article (213

2137  11-Feb-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: 100 Diameter Limit << agora.rain.com!carl



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2117

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 91 14:34:54 EST

From: Dan Corrin <dan@engrg.uwo.ca>

Subject: FTP archive update



The number of the FTP site is 129.100.100.12 (changed from 129.100.4.12)

If you are using the name (sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca) and your site supports

DNS and you still cannot connect let me know. The FTP archives had a

slight glitch around January 5,6 and 7th, other than those times there

has been no interruption for FTP access that I am aware of.



No article bundles are available for 1991 due to a reorganization of 

James' software, I have decided *not* to create my own bundles for the 

interim.



I expect the CAT archives to be made available when there is sufficient

information in them to warrant it.



						-Dan



Dan Corrin, System Manager, Mechanical Engineering, UWO, London, Ontario

TML/CZ FTP site coordinator:   dan@engrg.uwo.ca  



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2118

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 91 13:23:33 PST

From: wilber%nunki.usc.edu@usc.edu (John Wilber)

Subject: My Account Will Dissappear



Since I've graduated from USC with my BSEE in December 1990 (finally),

my Unix account will be deactivated on or about February 1st.  When my

mail starts to bounce, that's it, folks.  Hopefully I'll end up working

somewhere with net access, but in any case, once I get a job, I'll

probably sign up with GEnie, so I hope to see some of you there.



May your lasers stay cold, and stay away from black holes,



John

wilber@nunki.usc.edu (but not for long)





------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2119

From: CHOINSKI@s35.prime.COM

Date: 31 Jan 91 11:54:21 EST



- - -=============================================================================-

Well, I've enjoyed the list, but today is my last day at Prime.

Please stop sending digests to this account (CHOINSKI@s35.Prime.com).

As soon as I get another feed, I'm gonna try to re-contact you.



So long and thanks for all the feeds...

  -- Burton

- - -============================================================================-

 Burton Choinski                                       choinski@env.prime.com

 Prime Computer, Inc.                                    (508) 879-2960 x3233

 Framingham, Ma.  01701                              "PR1ME's still the one!"

- - -============================================================================-

          Disclaimer:  Hey, not me man ...  musta been my evil twin!





------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2120

Date:     Fri, 1 Feb 91 9:52:54 EST

From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>

Subject:  Flaming Eye



I acquired the Flaming Eye Sourcebook last Saturday.  I've a few comments

at this point, and I may have more as I go along.  Let me start with the

statement that I happen to like the system summary sheets, and the total

amount of background data is probably worth the price of the book.



The book claims, however, to be two "campaigns".  I'm not sure if we have ever

settled on definitions of "adventure" and "campaign" but I tend to think that

both of these "campaigns" could be played through in two or three sittings, as

long as the gm didn't throw in a lot of unincluded material.  That makes them

rather less than a "campaign" in my book.  Just a quibble...



Metlay complained about the cinematic nugget format of Knightfall a while 

back, and with good justification.  I choked a little, though, when I came

across the following, drawn from the summary to start Campaign 2 for players

who have been through Campaign 1:



<The players are asked to deliver a package for a man on Vhodan, for a payment

of Cr100,000. The gm is asked to read this to the players:>



That was some time ago.  The trip from Lakarda to Vhodan was no less exciting

than the entire rescue mission.  Between the Vilani patrols and the Vargr

corsairs, it is a wonder you arrived at Vhodan with your message intact.  

Getting the damage inflicted on your ship by the growler pirates ate up all

but Cr2000 of your ready cash, leaving you hunting for a high-paying job,

before your berthing fees drain your meager account.



In other words, friends, you are asked to rip off the players and damage their

ship--OFFSTAGE. If I was in a game and the gm tried that on me, I'd be looking

for a new gm.  That is the sort of major plot element that I would rather play

out.  I relize that you could always do so, but it disturbs me to see a "pro"

adventure put that kind of thing in.  Any comments?



Rob Dean





------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2121

Date:     Fri, 1 Feb 91 9:58:05 EST

From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>

Subject:  The Latest Vehicles



Since there has not been much traffic on the board lately, I hope no one

will mind too much if I send these out for your perusal.  MilGame players

please note major security leak here.



- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------





Autarch Class Patrol Vessel TL9 



     The Autarch is the only representative of its class, and was assembled 

locally by the Sea League government on Overnale.  The vessel provides secu-

rity for Sea league orbital facilities, performs occasional customs inspec-

tions, and is available for light planetary bombardment duties.



  CraftID: Autarch, TL9, MCr397

     Hull: 360/900, Disp=400, Config=1SL, Armor=52D, Unloaded=9862t,

           Loaded=10330t

    Power: 58/116, Fusion=5220MW, Dur=30/90

     Loco: 62/124, Maneuver=6 (TrueAcc=4.27G), MaxSpeed=1000kph,

           Cruise=750kph, Agility=4  

     Comm: Radio=System*3, LaserComm=System

  Sensors: EMM, Radar=FarOrbit, Ladar=FarOrbit, RadarJammer=FarOrbit, 

           ActObjScan=Routine, ActObjPin=Routine

      Off: Hardpoints=4



       PulseLaser=xx2      Missile=x02

     Batteries      1                2

     Bearing        1                2



      Def: DefDm+8



       SandCaster=xx3

     Batteries      1

     Bearing        1



  Control: Computer Mod3fib*3, Heads Up Display*6, CompLink*1320

    Accom: Crew=15 (2 bridge, 2 engineer, 2 gunners, 6 troops, 2 command,

           1 medic), Staterooms=15, Env=basic env, basic ls, extended ls

    Other: Fuel=1879.2kl, Cargo=20kl, MissileMagazine=600kl (1000b-r),

           ObjSize=Large, EmLevel=Faint



Hydra Grav Fighting Vehicle TL10



     The Hydra GFV emphasives firepower and speed at the expense of protec-

tion, duration, and sensor capacity.  Highly automated, it it require a crew of 

only two, with the commander controlling the guns with a "point and shoot" 

map display interface. The main turret carries the 100MW pulse laser, with a 

smaller turret mounted on top of it with the 20MW PD pulse laser.  The PA-10 

plasma guns are in side sponsons, and cannot be fired within 5 degrees of 

straight forward or straight back.



  CraftID: Hydra GFV, TL10, MCr14.1

     Hull: 6/15, Disp=6, Config=2AF+turret, Armor=40E, Unloaded=257.5t, 

           Loaded=257.7t

    Power: 3/6, Fusion=240MW, Dur=1/3

     Loco: 2/4, Std Grav, Thrust=1000t, Max=2770kph, Cruise=2077kph,

           NOE=140kph

     Comm: Radio=Continental(5000), Laser=VDist(50)

  Sensors: EMS Active=Regional(500), EMS Passive=Continental(5000),

           ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Form

      Off: Hardpoints=1



                       Pen/         Max     Auto   Dngr

                       Attn   Dmg   Range   Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF

  100MW Pulse Laser    57/4   100  Rgnl(250)  3     -      H    80

   20MW Pulse Laser    38/3    20  VDist(50)  3     -      H    80

 2*PA-10 Plasma Gun    44/5    20  VDist(5.1) 2     15     H    40



      Def: Point Defense Targeting for 20MW pulse laser

  Control: Comp1/bis*2, 1*HeadsUpDisplay, 32*DynLink

    Accom: Crew=2 (Driver,Commander), Passenger=1, Seats=Roomy*2, Cramped*1,

           Env=basic env, basic ls, ext ls

    Other: Fuel=2.88kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Moderate



Eagle Interface Fighter TL10



     The Eagle is capable of limited space operations and can be ground or 

ship based.  It is primarily intended for engagements with enemy grav fight-

ing vehicles, and is accordingly armed with a 250MW ship-class pulse laser.



  CraftID: Eagle Interface Fighter, TL10, MCr28.54

     Hull: 9/23, Disp=10, Conf=1AF, Armor=50E, Loaded=513.2t, Unloaded=512.2t 

    Power: 5/10, Fusion=408MW, Dur=24hrs

     Loco: 2/4, StdGrav=1500t, TopSpeed=2035kph, Cruise=1526kph, NOE=140kph,

           MaxAccel=1.9G, Agility=1

     Comm: Radio=FarOrbit, LaserComm=FarOrbit

  Sensors: EMS Active(Planetary), EMS Passive(Interplanetary),

           ActObjScan=Diff, ActObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Routine

       Off: Hardpoints=1



               Missile=x01  PulseLaser=xx1

           Batteries     1               1

           Bearing       1               1



      Def: DefDM+4



             SandCaster=xx2

           Batteries      1

           Bearing        1



  Control: Comp1bis*2, HeadsUpDisplay*1, DynLink*122

    Accom: Crew=1 (Pilot), Seat=Adequate*1, Env=basic env, basic ls,

           extended ls

    Other: Fuel=4.9kl, ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=Moderate, Missiles=14b-r



Commodore Perkins class Fleet Escort TL10



     The Commodore Perkins class of fleet escorts was built locally by the 

Planetary Navy of Horosho.  Faced with the usual problems of a low stellar 

tech level local navy, the Perkins are a compromise design.  Offensive power 

is provided by missiles and particle accelerators which tend to be less 

affected by enemy active defenses, and a substantial amount of armor is 

carried to keep the craft fighting as long as possible when overwhelmed by a 

higher tech level foe.  Similar vessels may be found in Vargr and Sword 

Worlds navies of appropriate tech level.

     No small craft weights or costs are included below, although provision 

for accomodation of flight crew is included.



  CraftID: Commodore Perkins class Fleet Escort, TL10, MCr7066.6

     Hull: 5400/13500, Disp=6000t, Config=1SL, Armor=67E, Loaded=274063t,

           Unloaded=270998t

    Power: 667/1334, Fusion=60000MW, Duration=30/90 

     Loco: 594/1188, Maneuver=4 (Thrust=429kt), 108/216, Jump=1,

           Cruise=750kph, Max=1000kph, TrueAcc=1.56G, Agility=1

     Comm: Radio=System*3, Laser=System*3, Maser=System*3

  Sensors: EMM, EMS Active(FarOrbit)*3, EMS Jammer (FarOrbit),

           EMS Passive(Interstellar)*3, ActObjScan=Rout, ActObjPin=Rout,

           PassEnScan=Rout

      Off: Hardpoints=60



                Missile=x80     PartAcc=030

           Batteries     2               2

           Bearing       2               2



      Def: DefDM+5



               SandCaster=x09

           Batteries        2

           Bearing          2



  Control: Computer Mod4fib*3, 50*HeadsUpDisplay, 21000*DynLink

    Accom: Crew=185 (14 bridge, 23 engineer, 31 maintenance, 32 gunners,

           30 flight, 40 troops, 12 command, 3 medical), Staterooms=93,

           Env=basic env, basic ls, extended ls, inertial comp

    Other: Fuel=29700kl (1 jump-1+30 days), Cargo=486kl, Missile 

           Magazine=1000kl (100b-r), Fuel Scoops, Fuel Purifier 

           (18hr), SubCraft=600ton Small Craft Bay, ObjSize=Large, 

           EmLevel=Faint



Vigilant class System Defense Boat TL11



     The Vigilant class SDBs were built by a consortium of independent gov-

ernments on Tirem.  As a corrosive atmosphere planet, it was determined that 

in-atmosphere operations would be minimal, so a streamlined rather than an 

airframe hull was selected.  A laser main battery was considered desirable to 

avoid the necessity of missile resupply operations during a major invasion of 

the system.  Similar vessels may be found in planetary navies of this tech

level throughout the Imperium and beyond.



  CraftID: Vigilant class SDB, TL11, MCr426

     Hull: 360/900, Disp=400t, Config=4SL, Armor=52E, Loaded=11763t,

           Unloaded=11520t

    Power: 83/166, Fusion=7428MW, Duration=29/87 

     Loco: 62/134, Maneuver=6, Thrusters=44200t, Cruise=750kph,

           Max=1000kph, MaxAcceleration=3.75G, Agility=3

     Comm: Radio=System*3, Laser=System*3, Maser=System*3

  Sensors: EMS Active(FarOrbit)*3, EMS Passive(Interstellar)*3,

           Neutrino Sensor(1GW)*3, HighPenDensitometer(1m),

           ActObjScan=Rout, ActObjPin=Rout, PassObjScan=Form,

           PassObjPin=Form, PassEnScan=Rout, PassEnScan=Form

      Off: Hardpoints=4



             BeamLaser=xx3

           Batteries     3

           Bearing       3



      Def: DefDM+9



               SandCaster=x04

           Batteries        1

           Bearing          1



  Control: Computer Mod5fib*3, 9*HeadsUpDisplay, 740*DynLink

    Accom: Crew=10 (2 bridge, 3 engineer, 3 gunners, 1 command,

           1 medical), Staterooms=10, Env=basic env, basic ls, extended ls, 

           grav plates, inertial comp

    Other: Fuel=2585kl, Cargo=62kl, Fuel Scoops, ObjSize=Large, 

           EmLevel=Moderate



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2122

From: wilson m liaw <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>

Subject: New MegaTraveller Adventure

Date: Sat, 2 Feb 91 1:28:51 EST



There is suppose to be a MegaTraveller adventure published by GDW and

written by Mike Stackpole. (Author of many BattleTech novels, and ShadowRun

stores.), has anyone heard anything about it?



				Mac



Wilson MacGyver                      | In every heart, there is a time machine

Internet:macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu | if you believe in your memeory. Trace

=====================================| every place you've been, you know what

Disclaimer:All opinions are mine only| it means.    -Encouragement from Martika



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2123

Date: Sat, 2 Feb 91 16:16:26 EST

From: Dan Corrin <dan@engrg.uwo.ca>

Subject: 100 diameter jump point.







The 100 planetary diameter rules for safe jump distance has always 

seemed to be a rule of thumb requirement where the exact distance 

can be figured out, it is easier to be safe.



The Starship operators manual states that the 100 diameter is due 

to gravitational effects. "...the gravitational effects of nearby 

massive bodies must be considered. Within 10 diameters of a world 

or any massive body (even another starship), the proximity of the 

mass so distorts the fabric of space (and jumpspace) ...."



I decided to calculate the gravitational effects for some unusual

situations, massive stars, habitable worlds orbiting a gas giant, 

black holes, battleships, etc. and come up with safe jump distances.



Using the formula g=G*M/r^2, the gravity can be calculated at

any point. For earth at standard orbit it is 0.952g, at 10 diameters

0.00226g, and at 100 diameters 0.0000247g the earth is a size 8 world.

We could say that the safe limit is 0.00003 g, and 0.0025 g for a

"10 diameter" limit. This allows for a 10% error on the large planets

for differing densities, etc.



Let's look at the moon, a "typical?" size 2 world. The force of gravity

at 10 diameters is 0.00445g and at 100 0.00000487g. If in fact we use

the speculative values from above, a safe jump could be done at 40

diameters (gravity < 0.00003g). This is quite a variation for a 

thumbnail guide to be used in practice, in fact as the travel times are 

given in a chart in the imperial encyclopedia (pp. 92, 93), a new chart 

could be developed for worlds with reasonable densities giving more

accurate jump distances.



However considering the earth situation, traveling out to 100 diameters

(directly away from the sun), the ship is experiencing 0.0000247g from

the earth, however from the sun the pull is 0.0005987, or some 24 times

as powerful. Jumping from that point would be like jumping from a

distance of 20 diameters. One could argue that the sun's effects are

already calculated in but the variation in the jump distance due to

planetary size would be insignificant. In fact in order to get down to

0.00003g one would have to travel out to over 4.5 AU distance from the

sun. At 1g this would not take 6-8hours, but near 127, or over 5 days!



Either something is wrong with the 100 diameter limit, or the explanation

about gravity being the cause, though I cannot think of anyother reason.





						-Dan



Dan Corrin, System Manager, Mechanical Engineering, UWO, London, Ontario

TML FTP site coordinator:  dan@engrg.uwo.ca   ...!watmath!julian!engrg!dan



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2124

Date: Sun, 3 Feb 91 19:45:32 CST

From: Brian Hartsfield <bh@eng.auburn.edu>

Subject: GMing



I have never GMed a Megatravller game (I have GMed AD&D for a number of years),

but I am ficing to start one. If anybody could send me any advice or examples

of types of adventures that work well and those that don't or any advice in

general about GMing a megatravller game, I would be most appreciative. Please

e-mail so as to not clutter up the list.



Brian Hartsfield

bh@eng.auburn.edu



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2125

Date:         Mon, 04 Feb 91 09:52:53 GMT

From: Arthur Green <AJGREEN%IRLEARN@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>

Subject:      100 diameter limit





>From: Dan Corrin <dan@engrg.uwo.ca>

>Subject: (2123) 100 diameter jump point.

>

>The 100 planetary diameter rules for safe jump distance has always

>seemed to be a rule of thumb requirement where the exact distance

>can be figured out, it is easier to be safe.

>

>The Starship operators manual states that the 100 diameter is due

>to gravitational effects. "...the gravitational effects of nearby

>massive bodies must be considered. Within 10 diameters of a world

>or any massive body (even another starship), the proximity of the

>mass so distorts the fabric of space (and jumpspace) ...."

>

[ ... lots of stuff deleted to save space ... ]

>

>However considering the earth situation, traveling out to 100 diameters

>(directly away from the sun), the ship is experiencing 0.0000247g from

>the earth, however from the sun the pull is 0.0005987, or some 24 times

>as powerful. Jumping from that point would be like jumping from a

>distance of 20 diameters.

[ ... more stuff deleted ... ]

>

>               -Dan

>

>Dan Corrin, System Manager, Mechanical Engineering, UWO, London, Ontario

>TML FTP site coordinator:  dan@engrg.uwo.ca   ...!watmath!julian!engrg!dan



Here's a thought: maybe safety has something to do with the curvature of

space-time (or whatever) ... so that being under 0.0005G from the sun

doesn't make that much difference. This idea would take some mathematics

to check out -- it's relatively early in the AM here so I haven't checked

it out. If I'm wrong, no doubt somebody will flame me (bear in mind I'm a

retired civil engineer, not a mathematician :-)



 - Arthur Green

   University College Dublin Computing Services -- AJGREEN@IRLEARN.BITNET

                                                   AJGREEN@IRLEARN.UCD.IE



   "A waist is a terrible thing to mind"



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2126

Date: Mon, 4 Feb 91 08:50:19 EST

From: True Friends Change Your Life  04-Feb-1991 0846 <baranski@meridn.enet.dec.COM>

Subject: trade wagging the dog (old message)



RE:  Why Trade?  Or, the Tail Wagging the Dog. From: MKTESWX  at GSUVM1

 

"I'll try to keep this short (ha!).  I have a major problem with the people who

keep posting messages telling me why trade won't work in Traveller (or TDR) and

therefore should be dropped.  I assume you want to keep the "look and feel" of

Traveller (large interstellar governments, interstellar Travel, etc), and to do

that you *MUST* have trade."



"If interstellar trade in impractical, there is no economic connection between

systems unless one is a captive colony of the other, and there is very little

reason for a system to have these colonies (barring Religious Destiny).  There-

fore, no peaceful cooperation, no interstellar government, no passenger

traffic, etc.  Traveller is now set in ONE highly developed star system.  I

think we have a problem here ;)."



Hmmm, I don't know who you've been listening to, but it must not be me :-}.

I haven't been saying there will *not* be trade.  I have been saying that only

certain things will be traded to certain places.  Things that are available

locally will not be imported.

 

"<description of economics of trading metalworking tool kits>"



Unfortunately I don't have a set of books at work, so I can't *really* analyze

this.  But basically this does need to be worked out for every type of cargo.

I'd guess that packing is about a third of the volume.  For bulk cargo, packing

is negligable.



Tool Kit Cost:   1500cr

Tool Kit Volume:   50l

Tool Kits/Ton:    186 = 14000/50 * 2/3

Tool Kit/Ton:     279Kcr

Shipping Cost:   5.37/kit = 1000cr?/186

Total cost/Kit   1510cr



Obviously shipping tool kits is not going to be a problem, but then I didn't

think that it would be.  I expect that metal tool kits are relatively high tech

devices with various alloys.  Note, though that this cost is for one jump worth

of shipping.  Hopefully this kit wouldn't get shipping at increasing cost

across more then one subsector.



The bigger question about this tool kit is, where is it going to be

manufactured?  My point is that it will be manufactured where the materials

required to manufacture it are located.  The cost of shipping final products is

negligable, when a ton of them costs 279Kcr, but what about raw materals

including food, water, air, where the cost might be 100cr per ton to 1000cr per

ton on up to 1Kcr per ton.  These are the things that I am saying will not

likely be shipped.



Mark Cook, why don't you put me on the Trade and Commerce SIG too?



Jim Baranski



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2127

From: wilson m liaw <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>

Subject: DGP Moves!!

Date: Thu, 7 Feb 91 2:23:19 EST



 DGP HAS MOVED FROM IDAHO TO OREGON



 If you wonder where we've been lately, it's been winding down the Idaho

 DGP office and setting up the Oregon office in its place. We're finally

 in the Oregon office now, so you need to contact us at:



 Digest Group Publications

 515 Willow

 Woodburn, OR 97071



 Voice/Fax: (503) 981-4752



 Woodburn is a suburb of Portland, OR





					Mac



Wilson MacGyver                      | In every heart, there is a time machine

Internet:macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu | if you believe in your memeory. Trace

=====================================| every place you've been, you know what

Disclaimer:All opinions are mine only| it means.    -Encouragement from Martika





------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2128

From: wilson m liaw <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>

Subject: MegaTraveller II

Date: Thu, 7 Feb 91 6:50:50 EST



The following is a press release from MicroProse..





********** MEGATRAVELLER II: 

			QUEST FOR THE ANCIENTS **********                       

                        

        

HUNT VALLEY, MD _ Paragon Software, the innovative game designers 

of the hit MEGATRAVELLER I, has announced the April release of 

MEGATRAVELLER II: QUEST FOR THE ANCIENTS, distributed and marketed 

by MicroProse Software, Inc.



MEGATRAVELLER II is based on the popular Game Designers' Workshop 

role-playing system, the most successful science-fiction 

role-playing game on the market, and is also a sequel to 

MEGATRAVELLER I, Dragon Magazine's Computer Game of the Year for 

1990. Marc Miller, creator of the MegaTraveller universe and 

role-playing genius, has produced the game's main scenario, 

concept and design. "The invaluable insight Marc Miller has given 

us into the nature of role-playing games will make this game 

extremely exciting to play," said Paragon President Mark Seremet.

Players face a global crisis on the desert planet Rhylanor, one 

of the thriving economic centers of the Spinward Marches. A 

mysterious structure, believed to have been built 300,000 years 

ago, has begun spewing life-threatening toxins. The only hope 

seems to lie in finding the reputed designer of the site, the 

fabled Ancient leader, Grandfather, who has remained elusive for 

thousands of years. Players will face the ultimate test of 

resourcefulness, skill and courage.



MEGATRAVELLER II features design improvements, interface 

enhancements and additional features not found in the first 

MEGATRAVELLER game. Over 100 detailed worlds will be explorable 

with at least half of a million square miles per planet containing 

starports, cities, terrain, animals and exciting people. Gamers 

will select from over ten different starship types for travel. 

Players will also be able to generate both human and Vargr 

(genetically altered canines) characters that will act and react 

intelligently based on their individual skills and will combat in 

a non-arcade style.



MEGATRAVELLER II will require 640K and will support CGA, EGA, 

Tandy, High Res EGA and MCGA graphics as well as AdLib, Roland, 

Covox and Sound Blaster sound boards. A mouse and joystick will be 

optional. Suggested retail price will be $59.95.



Paragon Software designs and markets a complete line of 

entertainment software for personal computers, including the 

recently released SPACE 1889. Its products are marketed by 

MicroProse Software, Inc. MEGATRAVELLER II will be released for 

IBM-PC and Tandy computers. IBM and Tandy are registered 

trademarks of International Business Machines and Tandy 

Corporation, respectively. 





Wilson MacGyver                      | In every heart, there is a time machine

Internet:macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu | if you believe in your memeory. Trace

=====================================| every place you've been, you know what

Disclaimer:All opinions are mine only| it means.    -Encouragement from Martika













------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2129

Subject: Where is everyone?

Date: Fri, 08 Feb 91 14:06:42 PST

From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>





The only postings I've gotten from subscribers in the last four days

were the two yesterday from Mac Liaw.  Did everyone run out of steam all

at once, or is something perniciously broken?



James

(From Oregon, MegaTraveller hub of the Universe :-)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc

traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA

uunet!metolius.wr.tek.com!traveller-request  "Load Auto/Evade, Beowulf!"



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2130

Date: Fri, 8 Feb 91 23:45:19 PST

From: salamon@sdbio2.UCSD.EDU (Andrew Salamon)

Subject: Sector data format????



  I downloaded the sector data for the Corridor sector, but I'm not sure how

it has been formatted.  Could someone mail or post a short description, like

spaces 1-4 is the hex number and 6-X is the uwp, etc?

  I was hoping to slightly automate the process of fixing the data up using 

hypercard.  I already have the Spinward Marches in a Hypercard Stack, but I

did all of the formatting (ie putting tabs between each "field" by hand.)

  Any suggestions for what I should do with all of this wonderful data?

  Thanks.



Andrew

salamon@sdbio2.ucsd.edu



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2131

From: Andreas Bjorklind <abj@IDA.LiU.SE>

Date: Sat, 9 Feb 91 16:26:04 +0100

Subject: DGPs new game: A.I. (tm)





Sorry about this being somewhat non-Traveller...



On the last invoice I received from DGP I noticed two things:

  First, they moved to Woodburn, OR,

  Second, the advertise their new game A.I. (tm). "Not technology

_and_ magic, but technology AS magic". Anyone know anything about 

this? Or do I have to call them and ask...?



/andreas

- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

|G    Mr. Andreas Bjorklind, Laboratory for Library and Information       W|

|O  Science, Department of Computer and Information Science, Linkoping    O|

|S    University, S-581 83 Linkoping, Sweden. Tel. +46 13 28 19 69        W|

|H Internet: abj@ida.liu.se, UUCP: sunic!liuida!abj, Bitnet: abj@seliuida !|

- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2132

Subject: Re: 2097 Fuel Duration

Date: Sat, 9 Feb 91 15:45:54 PST

From: agora.rain.com!carlf@reed.UUCP (Carl Fago)



 In message 2097, markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com (Mark F. Cook) writes:

 >

 >2.  Fuel duration & multiple jumps by a starship.

 >

 >  I have a design for a modified Beowulf-class Free Trader that has

 >  jump-2 and maneuver-2.  It burns up 405 Kl. of fuel per jump and

 >  has a total fuel capacity of 859 Kl.  It also has a duration of

 >  30/90 days (whateverthehell that means) according to the design

 >  rules in the Refs. Manual.  If I understand the rules correctly,

 >  that means that it can make one jump (jump-1 or jump-2, it doesn't

 >  matter 'cause the both burn 405 kl. of fuel, thanks to those

 >  mysteriously vanishing 'jump governors').  On the remaining 454

 >  Kl. of fuel, the ship can stay powered for 90 days in some sort

 >  of 'low-power mode (or '8-hour work days' as the Refs. Manual calls

 >  them).  This implies that the ship burns 5.0444 Kl. of fuel per day

 >  in that mode, right?



First, my comment to Mark...



Boy, you sure do get some mileage on TML from my comments during the game! :-)



Second...



Rob the Vehicle Maven writes, on the subject of duration:



>As written the second duration number 30/*90* is functionally meaningless for

>starships.



I agree totally and I will probably leave it off any of my starship designs. 

One can just as easily multiply the duration in days by three to get eight

hour shifts or even four for six hour shifts.



>A recent issue of Traveller's Digest legitimized the concept of running your

>starship at fractional power, with a proportional fractional fuel

>consumption. If you look at any of my high-energy weapon large starship

>designs (I don't think the dropship counts), you'll find a note about how

>much power is required in combat versus how much is required in "running

>mode".  *I* usually calculate the running power as full maneuver power plus

>full life support power.  If you wanted to run your ship at the absolute

>minimum power, I'd call it the amount needed for full life support power,

>most of the time...but even that could be reduced if you were willing to cut

>the grav plates (you wouldn't need inertial compensators if you weren't

>accelerating).



I agree.  In general only two modes need normally be figured.  The first being

for times when the ship is in jump.  Basically, computer, life support and

grav plates will be taking your fuel.  The second time is coming out of jump

and going to a planet.  This could really be assuming full power since the

maneuver drive would be going at full output to get to the destination at the

minimum time interval.  Though I would be tempted to ignore the fuel used by

idling the power plant since during the time of travel to the planet the

weapon systems are not using power (unless combat is enjoined of course.)  I

would tend to call these two items a wash.



If anything, if I were to design a submarine with a nuclear power plant, the

rules would lead you to think the thing was operating at 100% power the whole

time if it was not shutdown or idled.  Bull.  They have a full range of

operational power.  They are load-following plants and any engineer that

designed a fusion plant without load following capability isn't worth his

bodily hydrogen.  (Though large commercial plants made for generating power

for the general populace would not have to be load following.)



I also think that Dan Corrin's idea of Jump Fuel Units is also appropriate and

would reflect the fact that a larger jump drive would be required to travel a

farther distance.  The jump field would have to be stronger around the ship to

allow it to travel the greater distance.  In order to travel that greater

distance the jump drive would have to use more energy to generate the stronger

jump field.



+------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+

| *-=Carl=-*    carlf@agora.rain.com | Sixteen empty missile tubes and a      |

|               DELPHI - WULFGAR     | a mushroom cloud. Now its Miller time! |

+------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2133

Subject: Re: 2125 100 Diameter Limit

Date: Sat, 9 Feb 91 15:49:03 PST

From: agora.rain.com!carlf@reed.UUCP (Carl Fago)



>From: Arthur Green <AJGREEN%IRLEARN@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>

>Subject: (2125)      100 diameter limit

>

>>From: Dan Corrin <dan@engrg.uwo.ca>

>>Subject: (2123) 100 diameter jump point.

>>

>>The 100 planetary diameter rules for safe jump distance has always

>>seemed to be a rule of thumb requirement where the exact distance

>>can be figured out, it is easier to be safe.

>

>Here's a thought: maybe safety has something to do with the curvature of

>space-time (or whatever) ... so that being under 0.0005G from the sun

>doesn't make that much difference. This idea would take some mathematics

>to check out -- it's relatively early in the AM here so I haven't checked

>it out. If I'm wrong, no doubt somebody will flame me (bear in mind I'm a

>retired civil engineer, not a mathematician :-)

>

> - Arthur Green

>   University College Dublin Computing Services -- AJGREEN@IRLEARN.BITNET

>                                                   AJGREEN@IRLEARN.UCD.IE



>From the equation for gravitational effects that Dan was working with the

space/time curvature would seem to be hyperbolic based on the 1/r^2 rule.



But who's to say that gravitions behave similar to quantum mechanics?  It may

be that the "size" of the graviton is dependent on the size of the "radiating"

body.  Then the explanation for the 100 diameter rule could read something

like this...



The 100 diameter rule is derived from the effects on the graviton density in

the vicinity of the jump vehicle.  The lower the graviton density the safer a

jump is.  Whereas the gravitational pull of a body is a function of both the

density of the graviton field _and_ the "size" or "energy" of the gravitons. 

Where the "size" or "energy" of the gravitons is dependent on the mass of the

"radiating" body.



But those with extreme theoretical physics backgrounds can probably shoot

holes in this.

  

+------------------------------------+---------------------------------------+

| *-=Carl=-*    carlf@agora.rain.com | Sixteen empty missile tubes, and a    |

|               DELPHI - WULFGAR     | mushroom cloud. Now its Miller time!  |

+------------------------------------+---------------------------------------+



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2134

Subject: Re: 2126 Trade and Commerce Debate

Date: Sat, 9 Feb 91 15:54:16 PST

From: agora.rain.com!carlf@reed.UUCP (Carl Fago)



>From: True Friends Change Your Life  04-Feb-1991 0846

><baranski@meridn.enet.dec.COM>

>Subject: (2126) trade wagging the dog (old message)

>

>RE:  Why Trade?  Or, the Tail Wagging the Dog. From: MKTESWX  at GSUVM1

>

>"I'll try to keep this short (ha!).  I have a major problem with the people

>who keep posting messages telling me why trade won't work in Traveller (or

>TDR) and therefore should be dropped.  I assume you want to keep the "look

>and feel" of Traveller (large interstellar governments, interstellar Travel,

>etc), and to do that you *MUST* have trade."

                           ^^^^

Sure do, but if the GM doesn't like the rules for T&C and none of the players

are merchants, then no trade.  It is all transparent to the game at hand.  I'm

in a game where I have a merchant and the whole bit about trading and cargo is

secondary to the game.  The trade aspect is just a way to keep my chip out of

hock and get into some adventures.  As a matter of fact, when it comes to

trade and commerce, we are tending to keep it out of the mainstream of the

game so it doesn't waste the other players' time.  It can take too long. 

Also, I like playing a merchant but I don't want to be the ultimate

bookkeeper.  If I wanted to role-play an accountant, I would have gotten a

CPA in college and done it for real.



>"If interstellar trade in impractical, there is no economic connection

>between systems unless one is a captive colony of the other, and there is

>very little reason for a system to have these colonies (barring Religious

>Destiny).  Therefore, no peaceful cooperation, no interstellar government, no

>passenger traffic, etc.  Traveller is now set in ONE highly developed star

>system.  I think we have a problem here ;)."



I consider that Traveller being set in ONE star system to be one of the

biggest mistakes by GDW.  The most successful role-playing game was not set in

a particular universe or continuum or what-have-you.  It is dangerous to think

that if a group is not playing in the Shattered Imperium, that they are not

playing Mega-Traveller.



>The bigger question about this tool kit is, where is it going to be

>manufactured?  My point is that it will be manufactured where the materials

>required to manufacture it are located...



Watch out.  This doesn't even hold true for the modern world.  Raw materials

are going to go where the labor is cheap.  Of course, there will be exceptions

due to tech level importation restrictions.  Also, I'm sure that there can be

cases of importing the "coolies".  Depends what kind of "culture" you want.



+------------------------------------+---------------------------------------+

| *-=Carl=-*    carlf@agora.rain.com | Sixteen empty missile tubes, and a    |

|               DELPHI - WULFGAR     | mushroom cloud. Now its Miller time!  |

+------------------------------------+---------------------------------------+



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2135

Subject: Re: 2097, Fuel Duration

Date: Sat, 9 Feb 91 15:30:27 PST

From: agora.rain.com!carlf@reed.UUCP (Carl Fago)





- - -- 

+------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+

| *-=Carl=-*    carlf@agora.rain.com | Sixteen empty missile tubes, a         |

|               DELPHI - WULFGAR     | a mushroom cloud, now its Miller time! |

+------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+

Please acknowledge receipt of all mail.  I've got outgoing mail problems on the

system.  Thank you.



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2136

From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>

Subject: Re: Sector data format????

Date: Sat, 9 Feb 91 23:24:59 PST



In article (2130) salamon@sdbio2.UCSD.EDU (Andrew Salamon) writes:

> 

>   I downloaded the sector data for the Corridor sector, but I'm not sure how

> it has been formatted.  Could someone mail or post a short description, like

> spaces 1-4 is the hex number and 6-X is the uwp, etc?

>   I was hoping to slightly automate the process of fixing the data up using 

> hypercard.  I already have the Spinward Marches in a Hypercard Stack, but I

> did all of the formatting (ie putting tabs between each "field" by hand.)

>   Any suggestions for what I should do with all of this wonderful data?



Were you able to read the file at all, Andrew?  In the sunbane archive,

it's listed as "CORRIDOR.Z", which means it's a compressed UN*X file.



Running it through the uncompress utility should produce a ASCII textfile

with a header that looks like this:



Corridor

 1-13: Name

15-18: HexNbr

20-28: UWP

   31: Bases

33-47: Codes & Comments

   49: Zone

52-54: PBG

56-57: Allegiance

59-74: Stellar Data



...+....1....+....2....+....3....+....4....+....5....+....6....+....7....+....8

              0102 C474522-7    Ag Ni An           320 Im F3 V

Khouth        0104 A8C3999-D    Hi Fl Cp           420 Im M3 V

              0105 C356112-9    Lo Ni              421 Im M1 V K3 V I

                .

                .

                .



.. and so on.  Those first 10 lines give the name of the sector and the

columns for each field of information.  I just downloaded the same file

to make sure that it hadn't gotten corrupted or something, and it looks

fine.  If you're having specific problems, send me a description of the

trouble you're having and maybe I can help.  Since I'm responsible for

the files being there in the first place, I feel a bit obligated to make

sure that all the TML subscribers can use them. :-)



Later,

        - Mark F. Cook (TDR archivist)



------------------------------



Archive-Message-Number: 2137

From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>

Subject: Re: 100 Diameter Limit

Date: Mon, 11 Feb 91 10:54:38 GMT



agora.rain.com!carlf@reed.UUCP (Carl Fago) writes:

> 

> >From the equation for gravitational effects that Dan was working with the

> space/time curvature would seem to be hyperbolic based on the 1/r^2 rule.

> 

> ...

> body.  Then the explanation for the 100 diameter rule could read something

> like this...

> 

> The 100 diameter rule is derived from the effects on the graviton density in

> the vicinity of the jump vehicle.  The lower the graviton density the safer a

> jump is.  Whereas the gravitational pull of a body is a function of both the

> density of the graviton field _and_ the "size" or "energy" of the gravitons. 

> 

> But those with extreme theoretical physics backgrounds can probably shoot

> holes in this.



I haven't got an extreme theoretical physics background, but I'm going to

shoot at it anyway.



Graviton density, like any radiation density, is going to follow the 1/r^2

rule.  That's geometry, not extreme theoretical physics.  Surface area of a

sphere at radius r is proportional to r^2, so density of anything being

radiated (assuming a uniform density of radiation) is proportional to 1/r^2.

Gravity is proportional to 1/r^2, and to the mass of the body responsible for

the gravitational acceleration.  Whether that means it's putting out more

gravitons or higher energy gravitons, it has to follow that rule because

that's observed fact.  Gravitons, by the way, aren't observed fact, so for the

moment you can say what you like about them, as long as it doesn't contradict

what has been observed about gravity.



- - -- 

 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott



 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs

 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk



------------------------------



End of TML Bundle

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